-------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 00:14:55 EDT Not that it matters all that much to many of you back east at this stage but I have elected to come home to touch base with friends, family and acquaintances. I am not sure that this means much to those who saw it happen, but here in California it is nothing more than a horrific movie. As a kid who grew up going to the WTC all of the time and loving going up to the observation deck and feeling the ocean breeze on my face and a feeling of being on top of the world, and when they moved the antenna through the city off of the Empire State Building, I saw it all happen with the building. My cousins and uncle's help wire it for power and install it's plumbing. A source of true pride for them. I have chosen United Airlines Flight 86 from SFO to EWR (they gave me a great price). It is the same flight that used to return as flight number 93 (which went down). Perhaps feeling idealistic in light of these events I feel that I need to make my life as normal as possible. I will not fear flying (not openly). Terrorism is all about terror. As soon as we allow ourselves to be terrorized, we become victims. For those of you who have lost, my deepest and sincerest sympathies. As a NY'er (OK, you guys are now way too intense for me. The Bay Area has mellowed me) I cannot help feeling like this act was an absolute kick in the balls to our great city. Today, we mourn and then we must engage the enemy on every front and rid these maniacs once and for all. BTW, tonight when I spoke to my little 5 year old cousin to tell him that I was coming in, he yelled, "Cousin Eric is coming, Let's Go Rangers." (I taught him that chant) E -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 03:11:04 EDT Sherwood - I'm not a fan of wrestling but how long do you think it will take for McMahon to come up with an Islamic Fundamentalist bad guy wrestler. MikeLviv -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 03:12:51 EDT The truly sad thing about all this is that it is the goodness of America as a nation that aids in these types of tragedies. Most of these terrorists are in the states on student visas or as seekers of political asylum. MikeLviv -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 03:15:17 EDT I'm also curious as to how airports deal with private airplanes. Does one have to check his own luggage getting on his own plane? And will the US require all airports overseas that fly planes into the states to require the same security measures that our airports now have? MikeLviv -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 05:49:42 EDT Mike: Great to have you back on the wall, the weeks while you were missing from this place have been a lot less entertaining, always love your posts and have a high regard of your views. RE: security at international airports: From my experience security in airports is much, much higher in Europe, compared to the US. In Germany you can not get past the security guards without you passport and your boarding ticket. Pocket knives were never allowed on board. I once forgot to put my pocket knife in my suitcase at Heathrow Airport and was immediately quiestioned by security guards in a seperate room for 30 minutes (nearly missed my flight back home to Hamburg). Also body searchs were always much tighter than in America. I always thought security at American Airports was way too weak. The new security regulations in the US are about the same standart that Europe has had in the last decade or so. I am somehow affected by this whole thing, as I have booked a flight to Seattle this coming Monday for a three week vacation. So far European Airlines are not allowed to enter America and I don't know what will happen in the next 72 hours. People in Germany are also in a state of shock and there were many gatherings and virgils held these last three days. In this hour of darkness Germany stands firmly by it's beloved friend in America. The country that freed us from the terror regime of the Nazis and made it possible for us to live our lifes in the free world. As I wrote yesterday for me as a foreigner, the mighty WALL is a great place to know what the people of New York are going through and how you feel at this moment. And this included the whole spectrum of views from EGAN to BADBOY402! I hope that this community comes closer together and that the personal attacks (BELLEBOY and YORK18) will come to an end. GermanBlueshirt -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 07:15:40 EDT MikeLviv- you don't remember the Iron Sheik?!?!?!?!?!?! shea19 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 07:39:10 EDT GERMAN BLUESHIRT...........so should i take it to say then that you view egan on the side of correctness and me on the side of wrongness...........i just wanted to get that straight BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 08:02:37 EDT BADBOY: I did not say that you were right or that Egan was wrong. What I meant is that both of you showed me the spectrum of human emotion and that I can say that I agree with both of them. I am too very angry about what has happend. I am by no means judging you. GermanBlueshirt -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 08:04:02 EDT ... or EGAN!. GermanBlueshirt -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 08:05:12 EDT PEOPLE..............i've accepted fully the fact that most of you all don't understand my feelings and\or beliefs here.....but be aware of the fact that millions do...i am just one of the masses.....but you all know that deep down in places that you dont like to admit(and of course won't)you too share similar feelings to varying degrees..........i for one hope that our leaders can commence with what i would call OPERATION CLEAN SWEEP..........which is basically the tracking down of.........any or all.....or as many as we can......terrorist groups and take them out.......pretty simple........and know this.......the more we take out.....the less there will be to worry about............true they will vow revenge.......but we are at that point allready..........so they can vow away using what i hope will be their last breaths.........do any of you know that afganistan has a approx $4750 to 1 us dollar rate????......and it used to be as bad as $17,000 to 1!!!!!!!!!............they have so little power there that they can barely operate radios............so what exactly is there worth saving????......time to start over there...........is there any other way to say that............or any real reason not to think that............ BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 08:06:21 EDT GERMAN.......understand................ BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 08:24:52 EDT you know............the way i see it.........we seem to be in for far reaching chances in our country............i have thought about this and i have something to say that hopefully will be understood............in this country.......when my son wants to go to college........he must know a 2nd language at least to get in..........i find that hard to understand and support....and allways have......this deal has just made that feeling boil over......what if i dont want to speak spanish.......now if i decide on a job that requires that ...TOTALLY DIFFERENT STORY..........but shouldn't that be up to me?????........what the hell difference should it make.......just about everyone i know from my school days will tell you that the only things they remember to say in spanish for instance is their name and dirty words............meanwhile ...........some jerk off is allowed to enter this country not even being able to speak a word of our language and probably never will...........that is just plain nuts............i dont speak spansih and don't intend to........now if i ever decided to move to that country.....i damm sure know that i would want to learn the language..........so i could survive there in a manner financially i'm accustomed to...........we talking satelites and dvd's here...........not hovering around radios in the dark..........so.....does that make me a bigot or a racist?........i thought this country stood up for one's right to choose...........but those rights seem to have tons of regulations..........TIME TO RE-VAMP THE RULE AND REGULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!! BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 08:31:26 EDT My condolences to the families in America, Europe and all countries that lost their citizens in that act of vandalism. Ukraine has citizens that are also missing after that tragedy. That fucks who did it and all terrorists should be wiped out from the face of Earth. Ukraine_Ranger -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 08:34:28 EDT and how many of you will dis-agree that if our beloved police and state troopers spent less "F"ing time giving out parking tkts and speeding tkts for going 5 "F"ing miles over the "F"ing limit.........they could make a better effort in helping stop this terrorist crap in the 1st place............i know that they are "just doing their jobs"........but their job description has to be altered..........hiding behind bushes in radar traps, checking to see if we use a cell phone in the car, that to me hardly falls into the bracket of protecting and serving........did it ever dawn on them that maybe those people with cell phones JUST CANT DRIVE TOO WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!! let's see....i cant talk on the phone while driving .....but i can eat hot food and open up near boiling containers of tea and coffee............it just maddening............ BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 09:05:29 EDT Terrorism isn't meant to defeat a country, or a people, like war is. The horrible, viscious act we have witnessed (and some experienced firsthand) is meant to shake the confidence of the American people, and therefore, western culture because America is so much of what western culture is. When a country's confidence is eroded, many things can be affected, most in a non-visual, non-obvious manner. For example, investors, totally spooked by the events, can become jittery and the market falls drastically. Bush and his administration is now under extreme pressure to respond and if the response is unsatisfactory to the American people, the ripple effect also reaches the economy. Social unrest can also result, as individuals endeavor to go about their daily lifes. Muslims and those of Middle Eastern descent residing in the USA today are no doubt looking over their shoulders. All of this is precisely what terrorism hopes to achieve. I am Canadian and got back from New Jersey late last night. I'm glad to be home, but let me tell you this, my American friends: I'm scheduled to return to the US in the middle of next week. Air travel permitting, I have no problems with that! RF4L -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 09:05:47 EDT FIRST SIGNS OF 2001-2002 Lines: From the NYPOST, the Rangers 4 Lines in practice: Eric Lindros skated between Theo Fleury and Andreas Johansson, Mark Messier centered Manny Malhotra and Radek Dvorak, Mike York was in the middle between Michal Grosek and Sandy McCarthy while Jamie Lundmark centered wings Zdeno Ciger and Mikael Samuelsson. schneidw -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 09:08:02 EDT for you information............as you prepare your verbal attacks on me........know this...........i am 40 yrs old..married 11 yrs....live in CT.....have 1 son(his pic is on the front page here).......played hockey 20 yrs...(defense)have had seats now for 7 yrs.........upped from 2 to 4 a few yrs ago to the tune of $4,400 per season...........live in 2 yr old 4,000 squre ft home on new street with market value of $775.000........electrician for 18 yrs.........started own company in 1994 RANGER ELECTRIC SERVICE...not a total union supporter(but i understand a few of their beefs).....have 3 men working for me...ahve 2 trucks on the road.....need more!!!!.....need more men asap!!!!....have had 2 herniated back operations....need hip replacement.....dont think for a second i dont know pain..or dont know hard work.....parts of my body go into each and every home i work in...........work for multi millionares on a daily basis in homes that most of you wouldn't be able to fathom.......i mean when was the last time you were in a home of a guy who spent $167.000 on phones , sound systems and hi definition tvs????.........currenty we are wiring a 12,000 sq ft "summer home" in washington ct on 67 acres.....$115.000 electrical job and the changes are mounting already!!!!!!!.........wiring home in rowayton ct for couple that already have 3 homes in the world that are IDENTICAL to this one...but they want more!!!!!!!....$44.500 electrical job............the list can go on for days......let's not forget the 28,000 sq ft renovation in greenwich ct for $150.000.................i have wired the home of now retired merril lynch chairman Daniel Tully(remember him).......14,000sq ft in Darien(whose wife by the way told me that he was very impressed with my performance and professionalisn).......1 of my clients who i have worked for 6 yrs now is chief operating officer at empire blus cross which by the way was located in tower #1(he called ME, his electrician to tell me he was ok)...........and he at 44 doesn't need to work 1 second more..........but still does.........i just get the feeling that people here don't believe that my views are worthy of their attention and have little respect for me.....meanwhile their own views should be viewed as the 2nd coming of the holy grail.....and i will not and cannot let that type of stereo type go by with out saying something about it.............my place as some kind of junior master of the universe is just as sacred to me as it is to ANY OF YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!and i will fight for that right FOREVER!!!!!!!!! BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 09:10:01 EDT 2001-2002 NYR Lineup: As I look down the lineup, what is concerning me is Line (1) Johonson on the 1st line: We need a John Leclaire Clone that can forecheck, cycle, and get in front of the net; (2) Messier is 41 yrs old (3) Neither Grosek or McCarthy have good hands; (4) Ciger? on the checking line? schneidw -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 09:13:21 EDT German - I hear ya about there being more security in most European airports but I meant airports all over the world. I travel from Europe to the States quite often and am very familiar with the procedures in Frankfurt (and actually feel safer with dudes with sub-machine guns at the airport). MikeLviv -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 09:16:18 EDT I was also doing some stat reading last night and remembered that last year many people were complaining that York's icetime was reduced because of Messier. That simply is not true. Last year York averaged more minutes per game than the previous year. York was simply put in a different role. i think we'll all agree York is a hard worker and he was put on the third line to develop in that role. As it appears that is where he will be playing this year it is a good thing he got experience playing there last year. MikeLviv -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 09:17:47 EDT shea - the Iron Sheik was Iranian (Persian) not Islamic. Just was making the point that that prick McMahon will use this for his personal gain. MikeLviv -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 09:39:39 EDT Badboy - congratulations on your big expensive house. However, maybe you should try a little decaf. Fivehole -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 09:47:52 EDT fivehole................this goes way beyond your grasp........... BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 09:49:17 EDT fivehole......i have never digested as much as a shot glass of coffee...............try running a comapny for a few weeks and see how you feel BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 09:49:38 EDT company even.......... BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 09:59:47 EDT fivehole.....i've allways had to listen to and read here how much more someone knew about a subject than another , how much their own views should be considered better or more educated than others......how they have been here alot longer........etc...you know what i mean....and if you have allowed that type of stuff to go on and you didn't like it.........but did not have the courage to say something about..........dont come down on me..........you dont know anything about me.........few do so i wanted to clear the air.........maybee if we all new more about each other.........there may be less hostility.......who knows........ BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:02:27 EDT mike lviv......tell you what mcmahon better tread very carefully with this one...........the back lash could wipe them out this time around......... BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:08:03 EDT fivehole.......this isn't about one's size of home..........which by the way i forgot to mention i'm in primarily due to the fact that my mother in law died a few yrs back and my wife got $325.000.....what were we supposed to do.......go to a few away game somewhere during the season??????............i would love to sell it off........and buy smaller one and have no mortgage.......but it's my wife's mom's memory at stake here so we will just have to keep going on.......she still crys for her and we would be back in our old home happily to have her back..........i hope and pray that when we go ....we can provide for our son like her mom did.......... BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:10:31 EDT the real point here is.......it's the future of america's children that we should ALL be concerned about now.......... BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:14:36 EDT badboy - it would be tough for him to get worse ratings that that Manhunt fiasco he created and then weaseled his name out of the credits. MikeLviv -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:16:59 EDT SCHNEIDW: Once the Nedved situation is resolved, and it will be one way or another, we'll have more skill on the #1 line. My guess is that Johanson will move down to the 4th line, and Ciger move up to the 3rd. Either Nedved or someone we get for him will be our #1 LW. Topshelf -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:28:24 EDT Actually Ciger would fair better with Mess and Dvorak. Malhotra should be playing with York and Sandy which I believe would be a fairly effective checking unit. MikeLviv -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:33:21 EDT badboy - and just for the record I respect your right to have your beliefs just as I know that you respect my right to have mine. Now if only I could get myself to respect Low's coaching ability! :) MikeLviv -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:34:00 EDT BADBOY, I haven't posted a lot as of late, I have just been very angry and also had to deal with something very tramatic in my family outside of WTC bombing. But I will say this, you stepped up to the plate and it took a lot of balls to say what you said. I know it probably means nothing but I am proud of what you said and would be proud to share a beer with you in the near future when we return to what is some sort of a normal life once again. York18 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:38:02 EDT york18..............jferris102@aol.com..........count on that happening.............i like the fact that people here sometimes get together.........i wish we all could more.......... BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:39:27 EDT RF4L...make no mistake about the aim of these bastards is the destruction of Western Civilization not just an attempt to frighten the population. The sooner we realize this the better. MelvilleFred -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:41:01 EDT MIKE LVIV: You are so wrong, luckily, it's only about line combos. I agree that Ciger might make more scoring sense on the Messier, Dvorak line, but it would be a very soft, all dash and no bash line with no backchecking. I'd rather keep Malhotra there and let him learn as much as possible from Mess and a little grit out there. Traveler -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:41:51 EDT mike lviv...........that(getting to better accept low)could just require a nuke or two!!!......people............i just remembered a qoute i installed in my computer sound's file...it plays when i log offline............."you see, that's the difference between us..........you think we're fighting........and I think we're finally TALKING!!!!!!!!!!!!........that could go along way now BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:41:59 EDT just wanted to make a point regarding people's reaction to WWF Smackdown airing last night... 1st--it did NOT air in NY out of respect and due to news coverage 2nd--WWF is NOT a sport, so the fact that other sports are canceled is irrelevent 3rd--this wasn't a normal WWF show, the majority of the show was dedicated to wrestlers expressing their thoughts and prayers for all the victims... i'm not saying it was right and probably they should have waited...but vince mcmahon is not the bad guy in all of this nyr469 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:44:06 EDT Having known and played with badboy for about ten years, trust me, you DO NOT want to meet him for a drink. 1 - You'll never get a word in edgewise and 2 - since his hips went bad he looks like a gnome! (btw Joe a gnome is a small, humped over creature that lives in dark, shadowy places. Actually just look in a full length mirror and even you will understand!) he he he heh SteveCT -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:44:40 EDT MikeLviv you bash vince like you watch wrestling . you admit you don't but bash him for making 17 thousand people and millions more for 2 hrs forget the worest week in the history of the us ? dude your a jerkoff i am a wrestler and i work maing people laugh i wish to god i never ever loose family the way people did this week , but if the rangers had camp open i bet you would have been there rickyo -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:51:20 EDT steve ct......we'll just have to take that up at the durham fair!!!!!!!!!!.......i wonder........was you phone call to me some sort of an intervention!!!!!!!!!..........also for the record..........i'm NWO black and white and wolfpac too............what is wrestling really anyway...........SOAP OPERA FOR GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 010:54:36 EDT Next time I'm back home will be for the Nov 8 Rangers-Isles game at the Coliseum. Anyone else going? FRED: Are you around for that game? Traveler -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 011:17:06 EDT Traveler: There's a very outside shot I might be going. I'll let you know later on....MikeLviv: I echo GermanBlueshirt's thoughts. It's great to have you back and your humor means alot to us. I know that when you're on a roll, your one-liners are the first thing I look for in the morning. Sassy -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 011:19:22 EDT rickyo - yes I am a jerkoff for thinking that Vince is a bad guy for propagating men hitting woman and making money off of racial stereotypes but hey, that's jus the kind of guy I am. I never said a bad word about wrestlers, the "entertainment" value of wrestling for people and I never made fun of wrestling itself. I said I believe Vince McMahon is a prick and if you take offense to that and think that makes me a jerkoff fine I can live with it. MikeLviv -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 011:21:21 EDT Sassy - unfortunately you will have to miss my one liners for the next two and a half weeks since I will be on the road working throughout western Ukraine without access to a computer. And for those of you who thin I'm a jerkoff enjoy the next two weeks without me because I will be back later. MikeLviv -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 011:23:29 EDT rickyo - I never said I never watched wrestling I simply said I'm not a fan. And for your information it is possible to be a wrestling fan and still think that Vince McMahon is a prick just like it is ok to be a hockey fan and think that Bobby Clarke is a prick. I apologize if Vince is a relative of yours but I still think he is a prick! MikeLviv -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 011:25:24 EDT nyr 469, couldn't agree with you more. I was actually waiting for wrestling to come on last night and was upset when it didn't. Do we really need to see the same thing on 15 channels? As long as there are some channels covering the disaster to keep us posted, there should also be somewhere for us to go and be entertained or at least to get this tragedy off our minds even if it's for just an hour. I myslf have seen the videos of the planes crashing through the buildings more than enough times. Linda McMahon said that they decided to put it on after President Bush Said to try to start getting back to normal everyday life and show that we are not totally defeated. We need to show that we can push forward and start doing things again and not sit around and act as we are finished. That's just what the terrorists want us to do. Dusse27 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 012:19:56 EDT The "Reverend" Falwell stated yesterday: "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen." Falwell said he believes the ACLU and other organizations "which have attempted to secularize America, have removed our nation from its relationship with Christ on which it was founded." Pat Robertson, host of the 700 Club program, seemed to agree with Falwell's earlier statements in a prayer during the program. "We have sinned against Almighty God, at the highest level of our government, we've stuck our finger in your eye," said Robertson. "The Supreme Court has insulted you over and over again, Lord. They've taken your Bible away from the schools. They've forbidden little children to pray. They've taken the knowledge of God as best they can, and organizations have come into court to take the knowledge of God out of the public square of America." I say this: bin Laden prays six times a day. More people have died in this world in the name of God than for any other reason. AND NO ONE IS FORBIDDEN from praying in the public schools. Nick -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 012:25:19 EDT SASSY: I hope you can make it! I spent many an evening of my youth watching the mighty Isles machine crush the helpless Rangers at the Coliseum and despite the recent tough years for both teams, it's always a blast when the Rangers come to the Island. Traveler -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 012:26:13 EDT How about a celebrity deathmatch between Falwell and bin Laden? Traveler -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 012:36:56 EDT NICK: Could Fallwell be any more an A-hole??? Maybe someone should point out to him that people's belief's in other religions other than Islam is part of what drives Bin Laden...I can't remember the stat but there was a report yesterday of a certain amount of people who are being jailed in Afghanistan...their crime: trying to convert Muslems to Christianity!!! RAYNGER -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 012:57:20 EDT If anyone would like to contact the offices of Falwell or Robertson, as I have, to condemn their outrageous and despicable comments, here are the numbers: Falwell Ministries: 1-804-582-7618, Robertson's CBN: 1-757-226-7000....You might also want to contact the DC office of Congressman Martin Meehan, who thought it appropriate to blast President Bush for heeding the advice of his security detail and delaying his return to DC until the threat had been thoroughly assessed. Meehan: "I don't buy the notion that Air Force One was a target. That's just PR. That's just spin." Meehan's office: 1-202-225-3411. EGAN -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:08:39 EDT EGAN - Why do you feel it was "appropriate to blast President Bush for heeding the advice of his security detail and delaying his return to DC until the threat had been thoroughly assessed"? I am not saying your wrong, just want to hear your take on his decision. RinkRat -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:14:10 EDT RINKRAT: I think it's terribly INappropriate for any American, much less an elected leader, to be criticizing the President for taking the advice of his security detail and not returning to Washington immediately following the bombings. That would have been insanely reckless. Besides, this is a time for all Americans to show unity, not criticize one another in public. EGAN -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:16:26 EDT I am very concerned. I do not like what I am reading about the French and German governments about how we should be careful about how we respond, and how the French said that what happened was not an Act of War. I wonder what he would say if the same thing happened to the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame. I can't figure out if they are saying things like this to keep the fear of war out of their own people, or if they truly believe these things. Nelson Mandela told us to be carful too.....And now I am reading about how some of our own leaders are "questioning the leadership" of our country, and how they think that saying the White House and Air Force One were targets is just PR move....I wonder if the neutral countries in the Middle East or Europe or Asia blame US for staring a war in there country? We have heard from out govt that this will not be a quick war. I pray that it will not be a bloody one. God Bless everyone.... Mo -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:19:56 EDT Badboy - I'm a lurker here most of the time, and I would like to commend you speaking your mind. I bitch to my wife alot about what you're saying, such as cops and speed traps when they could be doing more productive things. NYR469/DUSSE27/Rickyo - If you guys think that Vince McMahon is doing this for the good of America, that's fine. I however do not think so. He's an opportunist and is going for ratings and stuffing his pockets IMO. Wrestlers are athletes just like in any other sport, so why isn't it a sport? Every other sport has chosen to wait until Monday to resume, why couldn't he? He's no better than the jerk-offs charging $5 for gasoline. JMHO. Sherwood -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:24:27 EDT RINKRAT: I think you misunderstood EGAN's post, he was against that. EGAN: What's with you and these "miscommunications' LOL. Traveler -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:28:56 EDT MO: My girfriend is British and I've spent a lot of time there. Her report on the mood there is that many English believe that action without demonstrable evidence on our part will cause an increase in terrorism. The other piece of info, at least from talking to many people in Leeds, England is that they have a very low opinion of Bush's intellectual capabilities. Traveler -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:33:07 EDT TRAVELER, EGAN - Yeah, I misinterpreted EGAN's post. My fault. RinkRat -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:37:13 EDT EGAN: You'll hate me, but I agre with Meehan about the plane. He should have kept it to himself, though. I'll just say this: Bush should have said "I'm going to DC; your jobs are to make it safe." Scram five F-16s to fly along and get the hell back. I fear he was led around by the nose. But I agree Meehan should have clammed up. Nick -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:37:32 EDT Traveler - Kind of scary isnt it.Hopefully they will be able to present enough evidence to make the everyone satisfied on who did it. On the other hand, I love Tony Blair. He seems to be everything a "president" should be. Peace... Mo -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:39:22 EDT Sherwood: Agreed on McMahon. I used to like the WWF before it wimped out (yes, even a politically correct weak-kneed liberal such as myself) but singing the National Anthem doesn't make ensuring that you'll collect the ticket money any less heinous. Nick -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:42:03 EDT EGAN: and let me hasten to add -- not that this makes Meehan's comments right -- I GUARANTEE that if this was Clinton, we would have heard the same thing in spades. Of course, Bill would have gotten bac to where he belonged without side trips to Louisiana and Nebraska, states that terrorists apparently can't find. Nick -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:46:45 EDT Nick: The secret Service has the last word when it comes to protecting the President, Democrat or Republican. Don't start making this a partisan argument on this board. If your looking to start up a political argument, this is the wrong time and place to do this. bender -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:47:00 EDT Its amazing to me how religous ignorance is still preached and the hypocritical coward lie which is the PC trend is still in prevalent as 5000 people lay under rubble? This morning I was about 1-2 blocks away from the WTC wreckage where the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel lets out in front of Battery Park City. I was on a private bus service, the only passenger, the bus was boarded going into the tunnnel in Bklyn and out in Manhattan. Both the driver and I were checked twice for ID. In Brooklyn we took on about 12-15 firefighters headed into the city. At Battery Park there is a 5-6 story pile of wreckage at the entrance of battery park city. There are office papers and debri everywhere, as well as that grey dust. Fire and smoke fill the air. I cant stress to you how pictures on TV do no justice to the mass destruction, wreckage, and carnage that I saw this morning from 1-2 blocks away. No movie set in the history of hollywood could ever compare to this. People should not forget their sorrow and pain as the days go by and this becomes a normality on tv and our lives. I still havent changed my stance, the Middle East should fry, we should then colonize, and use those that clebrate as our oil slaves! It sounds cruel but their lives would actually have meaning then, like dogs fetching bones or slippers in the morning.Better than the putrid cess pool of savages that excist there today! CHUCKDGAF -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 013:56:04 EDT I believe that Afganistan is a main Target now Laden took a control of entire Afganistan and people there support him . Mujahadin soldiers are his supporters and they're his protectors If We gonna Attack Afganistan we better fight those Mujahadin Soulders Smart not making mistakes that Soviets did (They lost that war and many man)What are you think? ilya -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:04:04 EDT Sherwood, thanks for the information,,I dunno anything about WWF....ALL Falwell and Robertson are religious to the extreme (IMHO) I dont really expect much more from them, I just switch the channel. As for our politicians I agree with Egan (and Clinton btw) we need to put on a united front, even if we dont agree with each other. Privately , and among friends I am disappointed that it has taken Bush this long to get to this city. This was a tragedy, if he couldnt make it, he shouldve sent Cheney. Just MHO WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:10:26 EDT MO, I think what the various nations are worried about is the 'WAR' language. When you declare war, it is generally against a nation or nations. What nation are we declaring war on? I understand where GW is coming from,,,but I too question, exactly what nations are we declaring war on..or do we feel we are at war with? I think they are worried we will bomb indiscriminately. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:11:36 EDT bender: I'm not. I agree that publicly we need to be completely united. Here, and in our living rooms and workplaces, there are still some opinions to be shared. I trust that you would not condone the several talk show comments I heard...and these are being broadcast, not written on a hockey bulletin board -- that Clinton should 'get out of town.' Nick -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:13:49 EDT WIOSA: the war talk makes me uneasy as well. IMHO, it's easy for a country that has never known a war on its own soil to be so free with the word. It's way more complex than that, given that bin Laden has operatives in 30 countries or more, including ours and Canada. Nick -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:14:10 EDT ILYA, I believe the Taliban has taken control of Afghanastan, not bin Laden. I do believe that bin Laden practically supports them financially,,but he is not the official ruling party. He pays them big bucks, and they give him sanctuary. For the record, I BELIEVE the Taliban/Afghanastan has condemned this attack. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:14:26 EDT WIOSA.Certein Countries in the Middle east where Goverment Support Terrorism Movement Lebanese goverment support Hizbollah Palestine Syria . ilya -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:23:19 EDT If I remember right, there were 6 countries that I heard some General talk about where terrorist were harbored or trained: Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, and one more. Those seem to be the countries that need to get ready for hell. What would China do if we bomb North Korea? Don't want to think about it. Mo -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:24:48 EDT EGAN: The right's own Bill Safire blasted bush on Wednesday and then yesterday he speculated that the stories told to him by the Bush flaks about Air Force 1 being targeted were LIES. It is funny how there never was an inappropriate criticism ever made of a Democratic president, yet a mild questioning of a Republican is met with such wailing. And I wasn't going to say anything about your spat with WIOSA the other day, because I wasn't involved, but your comments about "inappropriate criticism" of Bush made me change my mind. It was terribly wrong, on a day when our friends and neighbors were facing danger and digging themselves out of rubble caused by terrorists, to be bringing up your criticims of the last president. For whatever reason. It was not a good day to be expressing sympathy for people who were commiting systematic murder of civilians, even if the victims were bad people. Your political statements are normally not heavy-handed, and I'd bet you are a nice guy, but sometimes you should edit your partisan comments because this is not a political board. paulf -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:27:03 EDT Maybe that should be 8 countries, including Lebanon and Syria, then 1 other one..... Mo -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:37:29 EDT Nick: No, I don't agree to any "Clinton get out of town" bull. I believe you need "two book ends to support the books" theory of politics. I just felt that you may have been attepting to get a "Democrat vs Republican" debate going, and I felt this wasn't the time. Forgive me if I jumped the gun. I've been a little touchy lately, along with others, I'm sure. bender -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:38:27 EDT Mo-Yemen. ncbob -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:41:13 EDT bender: No problem, my friend. No offense taken. Nick -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:47:42 EDT Nick: At first, I was gonna rgue with you about a point you made but then you made that post about Clinton. I have to say, when I first saw him on TV, my thought was, "That spotlight-grubbing bastard." Then I cahnged my mind since I thought what he said was right, he also lives there, and I probably would not have objected if Bush or Nixon or Carter were there. I jsut don't like Clinton but have to remember that my personal feelings mean nothing. I like what he had to say and thought it was beneficial. My point? I'm not sure, I guess it was to say you made a very good point. KILL_EM_ALL -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:48:34 EDT RinkRat: It takes a strogn person to admit what you did. I have the utmost repsect for you and will now refrain from giving "your ass" away. Unless otherwise directed by you. ;-) KILL_EM_ALL -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:50:00 EDT EGAN: You are gonna have to learn to stop startign thsi stuff. Maybe you should start taking lessons from the KILL-EM-ALL school of typing. this enables you to say whatever the hell you want and no one will blast you for it since they'll spend most of their energy trying to decipher the words. It's worked wonders for me. And I'm the president. ;-) KILL_EM_ALL -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 014:53:58 EDT EGAN: I agree about Falwell. Never liked that guy and though he was similar to the other televangelist who was caught with the hooker in the hotel room. Never liked those self-serving hypocrits. They tend to be the most close-minded people on earth. Blaming others for this tragedy is the wrong thing to do. Unfortunately, too many people right now are trying to further their own agends and means through this tragedy. It takes a sick mind to do that. KILL_EM_ALL -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:10:10 EDT PAULF: For someone who I consider to be a reasonable man, how on Earth can you consider my criticism of the bombing of Serbia, which I clearly stated was supported by BOTH major political parties, and most vociferously by Republican John McCain and the Weekly Standard crowd, to be "partisan?" I really don't want to start this argument again, because as you said it's just not the right time, but I really resent that accusation from the pit of my soul. EGAN -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:10:54 EDT WIOSA: Regarding the Taliban and Bin Laden, I believe I read somewhere that the Taliban wanted to put him in charge of thier military. bender -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:12:31 EDT The Taliban said that the attack was horrible. But talk is cheap. Time to put up. Time to hand over the terroists they allow to hide in their country. If they don't then they will have to suffer whatever collateral damage may occur while we do the job ourselves. That goes for all countries that are safe havens for terroists. Call it war if you like. BUt we have to do something now before we have the Empire State Building or the Sears Tower become a target. They think we are gutless. They think we are weak. They do not want to understand negotiation. The only good American is a dead one. They are not remorseful in any way. The more Americans you kill the better Allah will take care of you in the afterlife. These people cannot be reasoned with and I am afraid lobbing a couple of missles at them is not enough. Had it been Afghanistan would turned this guy over to us when we bombed his camps a few years ago. They do this not in the name of their country but their religion. This is why I do not believe in God or organized religions. Its ok if anyone else does. It is just not for me. The Koran is a more peaceful document than the Bible, yet it is twisted to become a document of hate. As for Falwell and Robertson, they are entitled to their opinion, right or wrong in anyones eyes. But when was the last time that fanatic Falwell or Robertson called for the blowing up of an embassy or ordered their followers hijack and airliner and fly it into a skyscraper. Those are words. Words that are meant to hurt can be answered simply or even ignored. It is alot tougher to ignore actions of the magnitude of Tuesdays. ncbob -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:12:58 EDT KILL: Completely agree. And Robertson has a track record with that kind of shit. I think it was a few years ago when Florida was hit with several natural disasters, including some devastating hurricanes. He was heard on his TV show speculating that this might have been caused by Disneyworld in Orlando recently granting medical benefits to same-sex partners. A complete wacko. EGAN -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:16:09 EDT paulf: BTW, Bill Safire does not belong to "the right". He's a moderate Republican in the mold of Bill Cohen or Warren Rudman. Safire endorsed Bill Clinton in 1992. The New York Times does not have the journalistic integrity to print a true voice of the right on their editorial page. EGAN -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:17:41 EDT KILL: Heck, the way you type your stuff sometimes can be interpreted in over a dozen ways, depending on which way we try rearranging the letters to form real words! ;-)...Speaking of morons like Falwell, does anyone remember that two-part HBO movie, whatever you call it, a few years ago about the phony preacher evangelist and the miracle people they had come up on stage? Damn it's right on the tip of my tongue. You know the one with whatever the frig his name was who starred with that cool older manager and that attractive chick. Yeah baby! Sassy -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:18:25 EDT EGAN: Help me out on that one! Sassy -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:21:37 EDT RINKRAT: Not a problem. You're not alone buddy, so I must be doing something wrong. :)....TRAVELER: LOL! EGAN -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:23:03 EDT SASSY: Sorry man, doesn't ring a bell. I bet DOUBLE N can nail that one, though. EGAN -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:25:59 EDT "Leap of Faith" starring Steve Martin and Debra Winger?? DCIGolfer -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:26:24 EDT WIOSA: I probably feel the same way about former President Clinton that you feel about current President Bush, but I was glad to see him at the scene in Manhattan lending his support. I think he did a great job comforting the country after the OK City bombing, and any help he can provide at this time should be welcomed by all Americans. EGAN -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:27:09 EDT Sassy - Sorry not 2 parts and not an HBO movie. DCIGolfer -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:29:00 EDT DCIGolfer: Thanks, but I don't think that was it because I also remember that one separately. Martin was great in that! Sassy -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:34:52 EDT SASSY - Not the Robert Duval movie, The Apostle or soemthing like that? (again, not HBO or a 2-parter) Hospo -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:35:27 EDT EGAN: Whether Safire is "moderate" depends on where you sit, but I really don't want to go back and forth about this stuff. So I'll just leave it at that, with no rancor. I'd rather talk about line combinations. Badboy: I have a couple of herniated discs and am contemplating what to do. What type of surgeries did you have? paulf -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:38:42 EDT HOSPO: Nope, not Apostle either I don't think.....Damn! -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:41:08 EDT Camp update from the wall: Ron Low was quoted as saying he's seen more from Jamie Lundmark in this mornings practice than he did all of last season. He said he played great. Said Mike York looked like the best player in camp. You can find his quotes at newyorkrangers.com. Thought this would bring at least a little bit of good news for us. I know we need it. My prayers and thoughts are still with all the victims and their families. God Bless us all! NCRanger -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:41:55 EDT SASSY- Is that the movie with Steve Martin? CHUCKDGAF -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:44:44 EDT PAULF: I'll again state that I strongly resent your accusation, and if you can not answer my question as to how my criticism of the U.S. bombing of Serbia, which was supported by BOTH political parties, was somehow "partisan", I'd like an apology. EGAN -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:48:21 EDT CHUCK: I donb't think he was in it, no. I think it came out about 8 or 9 years ago. Maybe it wasnt HBO but I thought it was. Sassy -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:56:05 EDT NICK,,,I agree completely. It is not as easy as some think to target the bad guys in this instance. My hat is off, as it usually is to the FBI. A shot in the arm for them after the McVeigh debacle....EGAN, yes, and I have to tip my hat to Giuliani. I voted for Rudi and felt he did a great job on crime and economics, but was rather horrid on social issues. That said, he has been with these people day and night, with little rest in short he's been fantastic. Have to compliment Pataki too..although Im sure he needed a road map to find NYC :)) ALL, Im still hearing numbers like 4700 missing about 250 confirmed dead in NYC. Ill tell you,,if this is the worst case, it is a miracle. These figures are still staggering,,,but there are 53 thousand people working in these buildings, not to mention the subway riders and Path riders and tourists. I pray they find a huge amount of the 4700,,,but I imagined a LOT worse. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 015:58:56 EDT SASSY------The name of that movie escapes me at the moment (I'll think of it eventually) but it starred Treat WIlliams as the televangelist and Ellen or Michelle Greene as the boozy, singer. The same chick as in The Little Shop of Horrors 4Check -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:03:45 EDT EGAN, your post was accurate but woefully short. Perhaps if you had not interjected your political feelings on this site prior to this, it wouldve been nothing. BArring that, you are certainly justified in feeling shame at the bombing of civilians..however you forgot to mention the bombing of Khaddafis family home, or the road laden with fleeing civilians in Baghdad...Im sure you meant to,,but you didnt mention it. Again, I can get very angry at my country for some of it's actions..but I am never ashamed to be an American. Due to the fact that you failed to mention incidents that happened under any Republican presidents, coupled with your frequent political innuendos during hockey discussion, added to the words shame and American, on a day when we were struck...wellllll, I think you can see. That said, I dont want to get into political discussions here, this really has NOTHING to do with politics at all. Our ideologies come through,,,but partisanship belongs on the New York Times site,,where I will gladly join you, or any political site of your choice. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:08:43 EDT Look whose talking. lol quill -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:11:05 EDT NCBOB,,funny, terrorist groups LOVE to claim credit for the things they do. They have always taken credit. The ONLY group that claimed credit for this was a small fraction of the PLO, who incidently took credit for the Oklahoma City bombing as well. This doesnt make sense at all. The only reason I can see all these Nations coming out and saying 'WE DIDNT DO IT' is because they are terrified of being bombed to hell. I dont think they think we're weak at all. DAMN, IRAN denounced this, ARAFAT gave blood!!! The TALIBAN controlling Afghanastan has denounced this. PAKISTAN announced it would back us. This is strrrrrrange. It tells me, they fear us more then they fear bin Laden. I dont think that signifies an opinion of weakness. Ya KNOW??? WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:14:25 EDT WIOSA-One thing you must admit is that bombing stopped Qadhafi's rhetoric and acting out on his threats. He became very quiet. ncbob -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:16:23 EDT NEDVED: I thought a little hockey discussion might help clear our minds of all the evil transpiring right now. With NEDVED, upon review of the THN Bible, I recognize 4 major trading partners based on need, past relationships etc. (1) Edmonton (22 yo Comrie #1 center); Anaheim (Concussed, inconsistent Ruccin #1 center); St Louis (Nobody behind Weight); Phoenix (no depth at center; GM Barnett is former Nedved client). What do you Wallsters think we might pry from these teams? I realize we may have to eat some salary but....... schneidw -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:17:02 EDT NICK,,There are many problems in dealing with this group...MANY problems. I have read articles on him (double gave me one) and let's just say we have a lot of OOOPS in our background regarding this man. Our Government - under almost ALL modern administrations has employed a theory of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" ----WRONG,,you now have two enemies - plain and simple. Using that misguided theory has bit many a President and ruler in the ass. Yet many do it. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:18:04 EDT NCBOB, absolutely,,but the issue, I believe, was shame at killing civilians. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:20:57 EDT paulf: If it helps,I had two herniated disks and one completely shot. My wife had one herniated disk, and had the surgury, and is about 99.8%. I had surgury about a year and a half ago, and it's a hell of a lot better. At the time I had pain running into both legs, and up to my shoulder blades. Both of my feet were constantly cramping, and walking was becoming unbearable. They sliced off the protruding herniated disks, and cut bone off my hip to bridge the deteriorated disk. All the pain is out of my legs, and the back pain is minimal now, just scar tissue pain. bender -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:27:44 EDT Have a good weekend folks. Hopefully, we'll be able to find the bastards who helped plan this attack, and those who provided aid and comfort to the evil monsters who committed these hijackings. And hopefully, we'll be able to exact justice on these fiends without anymore senseless loss of innocent human life....WIOSA: I'm done. EGAN -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:29:21 EDT WIOSA-The TERRORISTS think we are weak. Sorry if that wasn't clear. The countries SUPPORT and ALLOW these terrorists to hide in their countries. To use their countries to train and live. These countries protect them by refusing to extradite thugs like bin Laden. Afghanistan has done this for the last few years. It is time to take the offensive. If it takes a "war"(which is very scary)then so be it. Maybe, just maybe this will send a message to the other countries harbouring terrorists that it might not be such a good idea. Thereby letting them get their own house in order so we don't have to do it for them. ncbob -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:29:48 EDT ScneidW- Id like to see us get Potti from Edmonton for Nedved quill -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:33:40 EDT WIOSA-It is a shame that any civilians had to die in Libya. I believe the only civilian that died in that bombing was his son. BUT he got the message. Stop the terrorist attacks against us. Stop killing Americans. He killed alot more Americans then we killed Libyans. ncbob -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:36:03 EDT EGAN, ditto, and have a good weekend....NCBOB,,hmmmm, I would ask our new friends - the Russians - on that one. Afghanastan was their Viet Nam. Im not saying I have the answer, I clearly dont. But I can see the pitfalls, as Im sure you can too. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:39:43 EDT I just have to, I know this will piss some people off, but I just got too. Sorry everyone. WIOSA: In your post to EGAN, you said this..............."EGAN, your post was accurate but woefully short. Perhaps if you had not interjected your political feelings on this site prior to this, it wouldve been nothing." Followed a couple sentences later by this......."Due to the fact that you failed to mention incidents that happened under any Republican presidents, coupled with your frequent political innuendos during hockey discussion, added to the words shame and American, on a day when we were struck...wellllll, I think you can see." ........Yesterday, EGAN continously said that he was not making a political PARTISAN statement and yet you said he was which caused him to get slammed by others and continues to do so today. His post yesterday was clear in that he was not blaming the democrats but the WHOLE government. You misread it yesterday, DENIED that you misread it and took it politically, and now you ADMIT reading into it politically based on his previous views. Please explain this one since EGAN, ONCE AGAIN, is getting attacked for making some comments and people interpreting them as partisan when he EXPLICITLY states that he is not trying to. Cause based on your posts to me yesterday, you are saying now EXACTLY what I was saying you did yesterday. LOL KILL_EM_ALL -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:40:09 EDT NCBOB, yes on Lybia, I dont know how many civilians were killed, but it is hard to argue the results. That said, the issue wasnt the bombings themselves. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:42:20 EDT Getting back to hockey...Low's comments today made me thing about how interesting it will be to watch Lundmark's performance in this camp. If Lundmark does well, what happens to the Rangers' center position. Lindros and Messier are locks to take 2 of the spots. York looks like he doesn't intend to give up his spot very easily. If he plays well, it will be difficult for Sather to trade him. Lindros, Messier, York and Lundmark, assuming he earns the right to make the big club, is a rather impressive 4, IMO. Does Nedved move to left wing? Or does he get traded. Or if York does well, does that simply mean he fetches more in a trade? Interesting... RF4L -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:43:37 EDT EGAN, I'm writing this under protest. I'm not looking to fight. You didn't say you were ashamed to be an American when WE bombed Croatia, you said when Clinton did it. I know you also mentioned that he had the support of both parties, but in my opinion that doesn't make it a non-partisan comment ... When I pointed out that Safire made more damning comments about Bush than Meehan, your response was not to the substance of the comment but a partisan point: that Safire is a "moderate" Republican. What does that have to do with anything? If you are arguing that moderate Republicans don't have credibility, that's fine, but it is a partisan assertion ... But my main point, to echo WIOSA, is that it was a bad day to talk about the plight of a people who systematically executed men, women and children and whose leaders are all under indictment for war crimes. I have a doctor's appointment so I have said all I will say. paulf -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:45:59 EDT Some of these people need to be shot..................For the first time since the tragedy, the mayor said a handful of looters had slipped into the banned area of Manhattan below 14th Street. One man was arrested carrying $3,000 in watches from a Tourneau store. In another incident, a woman dressed in medical scrubs and carrying a cell phone showed up at a police station insisting she had just spoken to her husband who was beneath the rubble. When her story proved false -- she also said her husband was a police officer and was with nine other survivors -- she was charged with reckless endangerment, obstructing fire operations and filing false reports. "She's a nut," said Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik. Kerik said several people had been arrested for using phony identification or pretending to be volunteers, then committing crimes in the cordoned-off disaster zone. And Giuliani said a phony telemarketer was soliciting bogus contributions for a nonexistent fund to help the families of victims. "We'd really like to catch them and make an example of them," the mayor said KILL_EM_ALL -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:46:42 EDT KILL the debates today were between Paul and Nick and Egan...go ask them. Messier still sucks. Get over it. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:49:32 EDT RF4L: The only problem with Low and his comments from camp are that they are worthless. York was one of the best players in camp last year and was horribly misused to his detriment and that of the team. I wish Lundmark success, but I doubt it's going to come unless Lindros gets hurt. At most he and York will duke it out for third spot duty and no special teams. Traveler -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:49:43 EDT RF4L,,Low, like Sather tends to say one thing, but do another. I dont know what will happen. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:49:57 EDT RF4l- I cant see Nedved moving to wing. Hell either holdout forever or get traded i think. quill -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:55:40 EDT Wiosa- Were all down right happy your the only one proud to be an American these days.How many more times you going to remind us. quill -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 016:59:43 EDT RFL4 Traveler- Dont forget guys that Manny could still play into the center picture to. I know its a long shot but it could be his year to mature.Funnier things have happened. quill -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 017:01:40 EDT Quill, what the f**k are you talking about? WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 017:09:15 EDT Wiosa- You know. Manny Malhotra are other center we keep forgetting about. This could be his year quill -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 017:09:56 EDT WIOSA: What an f'in child and hypocrite you are. First off, "Messier still sucks." What is that supposed to do to me? Like I care. You are the biggest tool on this board and that, right there, shows what an immature, self-centered, ass you are. There IS no talking to you because you a stubborn, self-centered, opinionated idiot. I can see why EGAN said he was done with you. You can never see anything but your sick, twisted views of things. Go ahead, live in your childish world. I'm done with you as well. "Messier still sucks." My god, what a child. LOL Unbelievable. KILL_EM_ALL -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 017:16:34 EDT KILL - Don't mean to distract you from your little war, but what the hell is with the AD from GT bitching and moaning about the probable new GT-FSU game day?..I understand his reasons, but with everything that is going on, his timing is worse then.....nah, I'll stop... Hospo -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 017:27:05 EDT HOSPO: I have no clue. I just heard about it from you. I haven't even looked at any sports pages except this one and another making sure that everyone is OK. Who knows what the guy is thinking? Actually, scratch that, he's not thinking at all. Couldn't even tell you the reason except that FSU is gonna beat them and now they are looking for excuses. Blame others seems to be the motto lately. KILL_EM_ALL -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 017:35:41 EDT PAULF............sorry to hear about your back........i dont recall the persons name who told you about his experience but i may not have had it as bad as he did......i didn't really get too many shocks down my legs that much...........mine was centered in the lower back.........hell i've lived with back pain since i was 17(lifting weights)when it let go the first time.....i took it for granted that it was just more sore than usuall......little did i know..........i worked for 1 week before the pain just got to be unbearable......i went to dr on a friday after he gave me a few tests(bend this way lean that way etc......)he says to me "son, get to the hospital now and i'll call them while you're on the way to pre admit.........i had mri on sat......operation on monday.......walked out on wed.......amazing really...........that was at 28yrs old.........at 39........during the busiest time in my life to date(work load, building house, selling house, etc........)i stood up out of a chair and felt pop!!!!!.....and i was crooked to the left severly............i went to therapy, traction, exercise(which was very tough)......i waited from late sept till january......leaning over like a fool..........even went to disney for 10 days........using motor scooter.......then i just had no other choice but to go for it again........and of course this dr(the 1st one had retired) tells me"why did you wait so long"???????...arghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!....i still lean over a bit on certain days especially in the morning..........i cant really sit in one position for very long without shifting.......couple that and my "F"d up hip and i cant tie my right shoe....the hip thing is wearing on me alot lately....so hockey playing came to a close for me..........to skate with my son at practices........some one ties my right skate ala mario lepwew......drop me a line a@jferris102@aol.com and i'll tell you more.......so this transform into the medical channel(we have enough subjects allready!!!!!!!)hahahaha.........talk to you soon................. BADBOY409 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 017:49:22 EDT On the Rangers site, it has all sorts of info about training camp but it lists Freadrich as being injured. It took me a while but I finally found an article at the Post site which identifies his injury. Ready? Post-concussion syndrome. Traveler -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 018:02:27 EDT HEY ALL...Just thought I'd drop in and say "Hi"...but..um.. well, maybe I'll be accused of telling people how to post and all, but I gotta speak my mind here....could we please take it easy on the political talk?... I mean, here we got wrestling talk, griping out cops, religious banter, and now political crap...yeah, that stuff is great and it's fun to joke around and all now and then, but at a time like this when some of us have lost people close to us? Rubs me the wrong way...Yeah, I know, some of us love a great debate with others here, but could you guys like set-up free email accounts and yak with each other or take it somewhere else?.... Love most of ya..heh heh..but if we start in on this stuff everyday..ugh..yeah, lots of us have our blood boiling over what's happened and our emotions are flying left and right, but could we see a bit more well-wishing and volunteer info and the like than the chest-beating "I know better than you!" posturing?...I don't know what losses you all might have suffered, but..well, I just ask for a little sensitivity, thats all...and if anyone's got issues with that: smw92@yahoo.com...I just think that we should leave this a better place than whence we came... take care all.... DESPO -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 018:07:48 EDT RE NEDVED: I'm pretty certain that this will start yet another round of the endless Nedved debate, but here's a link anyway to an article concerning his contingency plans: http://www.faceoff.com/nhl/news/story.html?f=/news/20010914/010914101917.html. As for myself, I think he has earned the right to be treated respectfully by management rather than having to earn his pay by reaching incentive targets. Maybe Nedved's a dream #1 LW, but we're in a heap o' trouble if we open the season with Johanson on the #1 line. Topshelf -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 018:10:58 EDT Oops!! The last line should read, "Maybe Nedved's NOT a #1 LW, but...." Topshelf -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 018:14:38 EDT PAULF: I went back and read both Safire columns, and was surprised to find that you completely misinterpreted and/or misrepresented them. On Wednesday, he did indeed state that he thought Bush should have returned to Washington immediately, but that is hardly "Blasting Bush worse than Meehan" as you said. Meehan, after all, basically accused the White House of inventing the threat for PR purposes....And you then stated that Safire yesterday "speculated that the stories told to him by the Bush flaks about AF1 being targeted were LIES." Again, there was no such assertion by Safire. Unless you heard him say these things on an interview, or somewhere other than his column, you grossly misrepresented what he had written......And if I remember correctly, YOU were the person who introduced Safire's political leaning into the conversation, not me. Personally, I believe that political affiliation has very little to do with integrity, be it journalistic or otherwise. I merely corrected you after you labeled him as "of the right." Most people in politics understand that he is a moderate on domestic issues, but a supreme hawk on foreign affairs, particularly when it comes to supporting Israel and the Likud Party. And again, he did endorse Bill Clinton in 1992. Hardly the actions of a "right-winger." Just trying to lay out the facts. EGAN -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 018:25:07 EDT DESPO: Sorry, I posted that before I read yours, man. It's just that talking about hockey seems kinda silly right now, and some of the political talk helps some of us deal with the situation. But I'll drop it. Hope you are doing well. Take care. EGAN -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 018:34:40 EDT GEE KILL, wasnt it YOU yesterday accusing me of calling people names??? Hypocrite huh? I had NOTHING to do with the debate between Paul/Nick and Egan. And Egan said he's DONE, not he's done with anyone. YOU, are again, blowing everything out of proportion. No less then 3 persons interpreted Egans post as policitical,,no big deal, we still go on. oh and Messier still sucks. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 018:36:11 EDT Quell, yes I tend to forget that Maholtra is a center, when did I mention him either? I dont buy into Low or Sather..they play with words and the truth too much. If you got something about Maholtra out of that, then fine. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 018:39:01 EDT Topshelf, I agree. I dont understand why he is offered an incentive laden contract - IF that's true. There is very little truth running around the Garden lately...hard to say. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 018:40:54 EDT EGAN: Yeah, I thought some before making that post...I dunno, guess it just bugs me..but yeah, you're right, I understand why some talk about that kinda stuff...just seems to ante up the personal attack stuff between some folks...and man, I hate that crap, especially now...maybe it's better if I stay away for a bit... thanks and hope all is well with you too... DESPO -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 018:48:17 EDT DESPO: THANK YOU and AMEN!!!! On a day that was supposed to be a day of unity, I was happy to see people going out of their way to get along with each other, basically EVERYWHERE but here on this wall. Why? Why is everybody bickering? You may call it "debate", but most of it has been bickering. Things will seem to be settling down, and someone will interject and start it all up again. There has been so much of this on the Wall the last couple of days, that I have not seen elsewhere, I just don't get it. Cindi -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 018:48:19 EDT SOME bad news, In NYC they didnt find anyone today :(,,Some uplifting news, there are Vets taking care of the dogs, and President Bush was cheered loudly as he told workers that they made the country proud....Rudy Giuliani took to task (nicely) reporters who are 'caught up in the horror' of it all and are not checking stories before printing. He's right. He begged them to take the time to check a story like two that were reported thoroughly in the past two days. One said 5 firefighters were found in an SUV buried for 2 days - untrue. The other was that a woman claimed to hear from her husband, a police officer, who said he was in the sub-basement with 9 other officers. The woman is mentally ill, and the story was not true. Rudy went on to say that this gave so many families false hope, it was sad. I applaud him for talking to reporters about it. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 018:52:27 EDT Cindi, politics causes bickering, actually most of us are sharing experiences and just glad to talk to each other. Bickering is minimal, and started when politics, or thoughts of politics is interjected. It's like religion, a touchy subject. I agree it does not belong here. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 019:00:34 EDT Then why do you compete in it more then any one else motormouth? quill -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 019:00:46 EDT NCBOB, getting back to the discussion about the terrorist might think we're weak...why havent they claimed credit for it? I think the only group that did doesnt have the money or resources to fly a paper airplane. Im sure bin Laden is behind it, actually Im pretty sure, not positive, but he continues to deny any involvement or knowledge thereof. Possibly he is afraid that if we retaliate against Afghanastan he will be asked to leave? I dunno..just a guess. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 019:03:32 EDT Quelle, if you READ my posts, I was complaining ABOUT political posts, and stating it was inappropriate. Despite the fact that more than 3 other persons interpreted the SAME post as political, you and KILL seem to think Im the only one. Drop the name calling. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 019:09:51 EDT Congress has approved 40 billion for restoration, reparations and any anti-terrorist programs. This is a good start. It is actually double what the President has asked for....on another Hockey note, anyone see the picture of Brendan Shanahan giving blood today? WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 019:11:04 EDT Your memory is fadeing if you think i started the name calling first there motor. Go back a few posts. quill -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 019:27:40 EDT Has anyone heard from Brian? Does he live or work in NYC? I forget. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 020:14:20 EDT I gotta say that I agree with Despo & Cindi....this political crap and the name-calling has got to cease....I am really disappointed to see that here, the greatest site on the internet, people are arguing over political bullcrap (an oxymoron) and calling each other names at a time when so many people right around us are suffering. Maybe it's time to segue back into full-time hockey around here again and use other sites for the political stuff. It's getting way to ugly here and it's not fair to Kara.....pour out your heart, not your liver. JFC31 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 020:15:34 EDT Guys I just spoke with friend of mine who's American citizen he leaves here for 9 years. In Russia he served in Air Force fighting in Afganistan he said no metter how they Fought them from the Sky it's Impossible to defeat them from there they're hiding in the shelters in the Mountains he said we threw everything in them Bombs Rockets Missiles.What are your take on this guys? ilya -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 020:18:52 EDT As I said the other day, I was there during the attack on WTC, and heard about the Pentagon attack while I was trying to escape lower Manhattan. William Safire can kiss my ass. Who the hell is he to criticize the President or Secret Service for protecting Bush when there were 3 plane crashes already and another hijacked aircraft in the air?? The plane that hit the Pentagon flew past the White House twice!!! Should George and Laura laid out a welcome mat and stood on the front steps with milk and cookies? Would that pussy Safire be satisfied then? No. He'd write an article about what idiots the SS was for not getting Bush to a secure area! Why doesn't Safire write about all the militiary bases Clinton closed. Or how he turned tail and ran after Bin-Laden threatened US troops shortly after the U.S.S. Cole, after he put them in harm's way to begin with. Or how they dragged our pilot thru the streets of Somalia, torturing him, and we did nothing. Or how he agreed to the destruction of the C.I.A. by agreeing to "screenings", allowing what happened Tuesday to occur without us having a freaking clue. Throw in the fact that he tried to create a legacy of peace in the Middle East in his eleventh hour(in a vain attempt to erase his other legacy of using interns as humidors!), which has had the same effect as kicking a freaking hornet's nest, as Israelis and Palestinians have been going crazier than ever, ever since. All I can say is, thank God that clown isn't here now, he'd be so crippled by the polls, he wouldn't know what to do. I must throw out mad props to Rudy G., by the way. Why I don't agree with him alot of the time, he has emerged as an amazing leader. You can tell he's kicking ass right now, based on the other suck asses who stand next to him at every conference(Rangel, Corzine, Billary). Let's wail on Bin-Laden, so we can begin the healing. puckyou -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 020:33:30 EDT GERMAN BLUESHIRT-- Your point is well taken but as far as I am concerned I did not make a "personal" attack on anyone. The personal attack was against me. I made an observation on thinking styles. You know I'm getting sick of coming on here and reading shit from people who make themselves out to be good guys and other people are the bad guys. And I'm not talking about JFC or DESPO either, because that is how it will be interpreted. Belleboy -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 020:36:21 EDT ilya -- I've done a good amount of reading on the Afghan/USSR war and these Afghan soldiers are as tough as they come. They are (and have been throughout the centuries), cunning, viscious, ruthless and intelligent fighters. They use the terrain to their advantage. And this piece of filth Bin Laden is not just some old jerk who sits around preaching....he knows military strategy and knows how to fight. It's going to take a MSSIVE show of force and maybe even some LUCK, to get him quickly. The mountains there have grotos and deep caves that are practicaly inpenetrable to conventional weapons. The only guarantee would be something like a neutron bomb that would not flatten the mountain but destroy every living organism within its range, whether in a cave or not. We'd have to narrow down the area he was in and then drop one on his ass. But he has the most sophiticatd technology available also....signal scramblers, electronic decoys, portable satellite dishes, radar, te whole 9 yards. That is why we are putting pressure on Pakistan...because they know where he is and could betray him and make our job alot easier. JFC31 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 020:38:00 EDT ILYA, my take is, this wont be easy. Not only did the Russians not defeat them, neither could the English. Both countries had good armies.....JFC, I agree, and for the record, I stated this Tuesday, and got ripped for it....JFC again, I was checking out your frustration with Saudi Arabia and Bin Laden. From stories Ive read, they did freeze his assets, and stripped him of his citizenship, however, he did take 243 million with him before they did this. I dont know how much he has left, or if Saudi Arabia still has some of the remaining billions there,,,but that is what happened right after the Gulf War....ALL, does anyone know how long people can survive without water and food? WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 020:41:40 EDT ALL, Im really loving the World today,,,and to be honest, Im really very surprised. My son saw on the news that at 12:00 USA time, England, Finland, Poland and so many other European/Asian Countries came to a stand still. They all stood right where they were for a minute of silence. Then some started to sing our National Anthem,,,they also had the Changing of the Guard at Buckingham Palace (yesterday) to the American National Anthem...that has never happened before. It makes me just fall in love with mankind. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 020:41:55 EDT Hey All, ... havn't been able to keep up with the wall the last couple of days, just a little reading here and there between my time watching the various networks. Just walked in from work, checked the answering machine, & found out an old friend of mine was one of the casulties. I haven't seen my ol' chidhood buddy in years, but the news is still crushing. Everything is still so unreal & unsetteling.... These fucking ruthless bastards killed my friend man... too painful to even comprehend right now.... hipcheck -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 020:43:05 EDT Jason, Im so sorry. That truly sucks, I dont know what else to say, just - Im sorry. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 020:46:30 EDT JFC, do you really think that Pakistan knows where he is? I dont. I mean we all pretty much know he's in Afghanastan. I thought the USA was putting pressure on them so we can use their air space and possible land for foreign troops. The one thing that we do have on our side is that Afghanastan is presently in the midst of a civil war. However,,that might just lead us back to the ole 'enemey of my enemy is my friend'..the people that the Taliban is at war with arent much better then bin Laden. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 020:51:53 EDT WIOSA-I really don't care that no one claimed responsibility. Alot of times the ones that claim responsibility didn't commit the act. We pursue the ones making the claim and in the meantime the ones that did the damage are covering their tracks. There seems to be alot of evidence letting us know whom was connected to this. Including the country of India saying they intercepted communications late last week between bin Laden supporters coming out of Afghanistan saying something big was going to happen to the US. Also, bin Laden himself does not seem to claim responsibility for any of these acts. He just says things like, praise be to Allah, this bombing is a wonderful and good thing or I agree with this action. Then when they start to gather information it points back to him or Iraq or Hezbellah(mostly based in Syria). I also think Iraq is involved in this too. As for the Taleban. Last week bin Laden beheaded the leader of the Talebans only political opposition in Afghanistan. He did this to show his solidarity with the Taleban. So you tell me the Taleban is being genuine with their words of condemnation. I think they(Taleban leadership) are liars. Whatever happens to them and the people that support them is deserved. It is a shame that innocent people might get hurt or killed in Afghanistan but there were thousands of innocents that were hurt or killed Tuesday at WTC, Pentagon and PA. They have an idea where he is. All they have to do is tell us, lets us go in and get him and his leaders and let us leave. They are willingly endangering the lives of Afghani citizens. The Taleban obviously don't care about their own people or they would turn the terrorists, who are mostly non-Afghanis over to us. Sorry for the long post. ncbob -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 021:00:03 EDT WIOSA -- from the AP: "Meanwhile, Pakistani military sources said Friday that Omar had been moved to a new hide-out in Afghanistan. He normally is believed to live in secret locations in Kandahar, where Pakistani sources said the militants have reinforced security. Pakistan, which has been Taliban's closest ally, is believed to have the best intelligence on Afghanistan and the Taliban." Omar is head of the Taliban and he and other Mulahs know where Bin Laden is. If Pakistan hassuch great info on where this guy Omar is, ad Omar knows where Bin LAden is, chances are PAKISTAN knows it too. That is why Pakistan is the FIRST country we went to with SPECIFIC demands....we are demanding that they choose sides now because they are the key to finding Bin Laden. JFC31 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 021:00:21 EDT Hey WIO�A, Thanks so much... I haven't kept up with the wall, so I really don't know what is going on around here... I hope people are OKay... I'm just so damn heart-broken right now. FEAR, sadness, outrage... I used to cnsider myself a tough guy, but I've been detatched and in peices since tuesday. My sister spoke with me breifly about (eye) witnessing all the people jumping. She said many were "Holding-Hands" on the way down, I just cant let-go of that image, and now the news of my childhood friend... this just isn't REAL... thanks again for your thoughts.... hipcheck -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 021:06:08 EDT NCBOB, You could be right about bin Laden not 'taking credit' for his 'hits' personally. I really dont know that much about the man. Of course I believe the Taliban, Iran and Pakistan are full of it as well. I was just using that as an example of how people that usually applaud this behavior against the West are all in a big hurry to deny it and condemn it. Yes, I know about the killing of the head of the opposition party, that is what the civil strife is about (and more). I think I dread even thinking about another Viet Nam, I honestly dont know what i would do if I were President. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 021:09:04 EDT hip -- sorry about the pain you're feeling. Only tin to do is be good to those who are still here, I guess. I had to stop watching when th news starting concentrating on the sad folks lookngfor their friends and relatives. On the way to work, NewsRadio88 played the voice of a small boy looking for his father, describing him and crying....I literally could not bear to hear it and I had to pull off exit 4 off I684 and compose myself. The mass sadness is too much to bear....I can't even imagine the sadness of those, like you, who have lost friends and relatives. My wife and I were blessed in that her cousin and 3 of our friends were right in the middle of this horror and got out alive. Hang in there, buddy. JFC31 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 021:12:41 EDT RFL4- I still think well end up with Lindros Mess, York, and Manny down the middle.Lundmark has the ability to replace Nedved in time but i think hell still need time to hone to the nhl level before hes brought in. Topshelf- Some article there.Tells you where Nedveds interests are. quill -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 021:13:54 EDT JFC, interesting,,I hadnt read that, thank you for the story. Could you mean Osimar? I think that is bin Ladens first name. Of course most know that any time there is any terrorist attack connected to him or his people - he moves. I think I read that in most stories about him WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 021:19:08 EDT Jason/JFC, please try to catch the news tonight. It is AMAZING to see the Whole World stop dead at 12 noon (US time) and just offer moments of silence for us. It was amazing to hear them sing our National Anthem. It is just a touch of warmth in the midst of all this. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 021:22:03 EDT quill-- I very much doubt that Manny will be playing centre. I'll bet he's on Mess'left flank. It will be good for him to play with a great leader. BTW, Ron Low stated that Mike York was the best player on the ice the first day of camp. And he said he saw more from Lundmark on the first day than he saw the whole of camp last year. Maybe we won't need Pouty at all!! Belleboy -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 021:29:41 EDT WIOSA -- "Omar" is Mullah Mohammed Omar...he is the leader of the Taliban and he moves all over the place like a scared rabbit....very hard to find. But Pakistan knows where he is. I'm going to check out the news tonight....it will be good to see other countries rallying around us for a change.....althugh I guarantee that France and a few other European nations are gonna waffle and qualify their support for us...even more than they are already doing. Ingrates. If it weren't for us, they'd all be speaking German, yet when we need them, they disappear. JFC31 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 021:32:16 EDT JFC, ahhh, okay, thanks...learning something about a region Im not too familiar with. Please do check the news,,,really strange to see the Queen of England and Duke of Wales singing our National Anthem :) but heart warming. In Paris they were crying! WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 021:43:50 EDT WIOSA...I grew up in NYC and now live in London. The noon silence and the service at St. Pauls helped me to regain some faith in humanity after Tuesday's events. I can truly state that the Britons understand and feel what the Americans are going through. I sang my National Anthem with thousands of Britons today. They are with us and will stand by us. Now all I want to do is get home to NYC and see my loved ones, friends and family. Trevor -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 021:47:58 EDT Bellboy- I still think Manny will be center but playing the wing wigth Mess suits me fine if it happens.Dont forget Mess could also be winger for Manny to. Anything is better then when Smith and Smuckler screwed him over and he sat like a statue. quill -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 021:51:54 EDT I wonder if Leetchie and Mikey heard any word from their buddies yet.This mess hasnt speared any one. quill -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 022:37:17 EDT TO ALL REGULAR WALLERS (and irregular ones too): Today's Wall especially embodies the emotional rollercoaster nearly all Americans have been on this week, with New Yorkers at or near the epicenter of an unprecedented tragedy and shock. Yeah, OK, we vote different, and have different opinions about politics and social issues, and those things are important, up to a point. But I KNOW from reading this Wall nearly every single day for over 3 years, that almost all the people of this Wall, Kara's Wall, are fine and good people I could party with, invite to my house, maybe even trust with my guitar or my best friendship. Please, everybody who got into it today & lately, cut each other some slack and *forgive* each other for being wrong, or off-base, or rude, or even nasty. IMO, evry human being has an Inner Jerk;If you're human, you've got it. That Inner Jerk comes out sometimes (with some people more than others, perhaps, we think, but EVERYBODY'S gets out on occasion). And let's face it--WE, as a culture, a nation, a people, a bunch of folks, have been ripped at this week. Ripped like we've never experienced in our lifetimes. We had our world savagely torn, and now WE are ALL in a new and strange world. Maybe we were already, but it sure didn't feel like it until tuesday. It really IS the New Millenium now. And inescapably, we are all in the same big boat. Let's share the water, navigate together, and formulate our plan to defeat the sharks and reach new shores of peace and tranquility. On whatever level we can. Feelings were hurt today because everybody's feelings are really OUT there. Exposed. Overused. Exhausted. I have great affection for the folks on this board. Even the jerks (and who knows, maybe I"M one?!). Our country's strength really does come partly come from our differences--Different approaches and philosophies and outlooks, when common ground is strived for (as is necessary in times of crisis and war). When you add up everybody on the board, that's a lot of knowledge, skill, and wisdom (and not just in hockey). And as far as hockey goes, but when something big happens with the NYR, I sure as hell want to know what Hospo, or JFC31, or EGAN or WIOSA or Despo or Belle or any of a host of other Wallers think about it, before I read what any flimsy journalist has to say. Damn straight. Every time. So I'm sorry for borrowing this previously-owned phrase, but Let's "keep coming back" to this Wall and each other. We're worth it. GuitarRanger -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 023:02:27 EDT Guitar, I usually enjoy your lyrics, and your funny posts, sometimes even the screaming ones...but of all, I enjoyed that one the most. It was really quite beautiful, and so true. Thanks. WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 023:04:11 EDT TREVOR, it was really great to see the Brits honoring us that way, it was even more heart warming to see almost all of Europe and beyond do it. I heard today that Cuba was having an 'anti-terrorist rally' sometime soon,,will wonders never cease? WIOSA -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, September 14, 2001 at 023:04:59 EDT GUITAR: You're so right...this has been a rough few days around NY and it was great to have this place to hop on and share a story or check something out...however, one thing's for certain...the arguing that goes on here may be a good release of some pent up emotion but we really should take it easy on each other...after all the destruction we've seen this week is arguing on this board worth all the venom??? I think not...but what do I know, I'm starting to think maybe the LINDROS deal wasn't that bad! Later folks... RAYNGER --------------------------------------------------------------------