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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 00:03:55 EDT
MRD- Your roommate is Bret Abel? Wasn't he a goalie at UNH? I played in
college with a bunch of Cushing guys who might have been about the same age
as those guys, Tom Guidi, John Moore and Mike Wagstaff (I know at least two
of them went there, I can't remember which). Just a small world department
thing on a tragic day. I haven't even been able to think about the amount of
lives lost because it still seems surreal. The wall, as usual, was an
incredible place to be today. My thoughts are with all tonight, I don't know
if I'll be able to sleep at all. If you told me yesterday that training camp
would be delayed, I would have been devastated, but some things change
quickly. I do hope that we can try to put things back together quickly to
show the terrorists that the cartoon Wiosa shared with us is right on.
ColoradoMark
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 01:02:51 EDT
ILYA: CNN said that truck on the George Washington Bridge was a false alarm.
RAYNGER
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 04:13:57 EDT
On a day like this we are all reminded of our own mortality. My thoughts and
prayers are with the great people of New York City. Now is NOT the time to
start pointing fingers, and come to easy conclusions who did this. The more
important thing is to find out why was this possible to happen. I booked a
flight to Seattle for a 3 week vacation starting on Monday...
GermanBlueshirt
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 05:17:43 EDT
Not posted for a long time and don't really know what to say now. I feel
compelled to come on and offer sincere prayers, best wishes and support for
anyone caught up in this. Even in Scotland we feel that the world is a
different place today.
Scottie
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 05:18:57 EDT
Barbara Olson was the wife of Ted Olson, the U.S. Solicitor General. What an
incredibly brave and tough woman. God bless her soul.
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 05:36:07 EDT
Imagine what the people of Serbia must be feeling today. Perhaps no country
on the face of the Earth has been victim to more violent acts of Islamic
fundamentalism in its vast history than Serbia. Countless times in the
course of Western Civilization, only the courageous and heroic warriors of
Serbia stood their ground and fought wave after wave of invading Muslim
armies, protecting Europe, Christendom, and Western Civilization in the
process. Not to mention that they were America's main ally in the Balkans
against the Nazis during World War II......Several years ago, in one of our
nation's most despicable moments, and one of the few times in my life that I
have been ashamed to be an American, our President Clinton, with the full
support of almost all prominent Democrats and Republicans, sent our military
to bomb this heroic country to hell, until they finally were forced to
surrender their most holy land of Kosovo to a gang of lawless, nun-raping,
drug-dealing, narco-terrorist Albanian Muslims known as the Kosovo
Liberation Army (KLA). Yeah, that's the very same KLA with ties to, guess
who, Osama Bin Laden. And how many Americans protested the bombing of these
innocent Serbian civilians? How many simply sat in front of their TVs
cheerleading this military action because they were too ignorant to know
anything about the history of that part of the world, or what motivated such
a despicable action on our part?
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 05:53:03 EDT
Wow... What can one say after witnessing something of this magnitude? On a
day like today I am ashamed to be a part of the human race which is capable
of such, as we ironically call it, inhumanity. On the other hand, I am proud
to be an American when I see how bravely and selflessly members of the
Police, Fire Department, as well as others, gave their lives so that others
may live. I truly hope that all of you and your friends and families are
alive and well and my prayers go out to everyone who lost their life in this
unnecessary tragedy. My friend and infrequent poster (under the handle da
Uncle) was on the 40th floor when the first plane hit and was able to get
out of the building alive. He called me from McSorleys to let me know that
he was OK. Be safe.
MikeLviv
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 06:22:46 EDT
Quick quiz... who should have a free ticket to paradise? A.) a man named
Louis who carried a woman on crutches down 54 flights to safety or; B) a guy
who takes over a plane and flies into a building killing thousands. It is
very scary that there are a lot of people on this planet that would actually
pick B.
MikeLviv
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 06:45:32 EDT
MikeLviv ... one of the dangers associated with being the most powerful
nation in the world is having a lot of enemies who would celebrate any harm,
however caused and whoever is responsible. This is clear from the TV
pitcures from the Middle East. In some ways, it is surprising that more
atrocities have not been committed on American soil before now. Having
travelled in the US this year I was somewhat surprised at the lack of
security at Newark Airport compared with the security levels when we
departed from Glasgow airport. We learned the need for vigilence after
Lockerbie brought home just how devastating a terrorist attack on a plane
can be. Has it been the case that security on internal US flights was so low
because up until now the dangers have always seemed a long way off?
Scottie
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 07:11:23 EDT
WIOSA - as usual you're the beacon of reason in the midts(sp) of a cocophany
of anger. There's time for that later. It's time for prayer and soul
searching. God bless all the innocent victims and their loved ones. Folks,
let's temper our invectives. Not all muslims are evil.
OT
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 07:15:19 EDT
Scottie - Americans by nature do not like to wait and are generally fairly
impatient... Hence the lack of adequate security. I think that after these
incidents that mentality may change somewhat. Americans have had their
blanket of a false sense of security which was dented by Timothy McVeigh but
yesterday was shattered. Whether this will change the mentality of Americans
permanently remains to be seen but it will obviously incease security at
airports for a couple of years.
MikeLviv
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 07:19:10 EDT
I also can understand people being outraged but Dunleavy's article on the
Post website is pretty sick... He basically propagates that we should start
bombing the crap out of anyone and everyone and start sending out
professionally trained assasins to roam around the planet. It's people like
that tha are in a position to influence others that are responsible for
actions such as the ones that took place yesterday. I'm not saying that
justice should not be served but it should be done in a rational manner.
MikeLviv
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 07:21:38 EDT
My thoughts and prayers go out to any and all affected by this
tragedy....Don't even try to get into Manhattan today, unless it is
absolutely necessary. I work in Finance at an upper east side Hospital. At
times like this, all hospital workers are at the ready to support any way we
can, whether its to mop floors or deliver food to patients or to take down
patient information. I had to go through 5 checkpoints to get into
Manhattan. And at one of them, the officer almost didn't let me through
because he felt it wasn't necessary for me to be at the hospital. God bless
us all.
George
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 07:22:25 EDT
Quick quiz number 2... Osama bin Laden's millions would best be spent: A)
bombing the piss out of innocent people; or B) building hospitals and
helping his own people?
MikeLviv
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 08:03:21 EDT
MikeLviv ... The answer is easy for a rational "non-fanatic" but Bin Laden
and his type are not interested in helping people. Unfortunately human
history shows that it is easier to destroy than create. At least, times like
these show the real worth and courage of some people - like the rescue
services that we so easily take for granted
Scottie
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 08:04:35 EDT
... like your man named Louis.
Scottie
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 08:23:04 EDT
If bin Laden is indeed responsible and Bush stated that anyone who abets or
harbors those responsible shall feel our wrath my question is this... Where
does he keep all his millions? A Swiss bank? Can not his assets be
confiscated? Will we bomb Switzerland?
MikeLviv
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 08:36:28 EDT
COLORADO MARK - Yes, Abel is my roommate. And yes, he played at UNH where he
was player of the year before being a supplemental pick by Edmonton in 1992
and playing two years on the East Coast.
MRD
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 09:05:44 EDT
This is too strange. I remember being up on the top floor below the
observation deck and leaning against the glass with my forehead. I hope we
take our time and make sure we find the right people to bring to justice.
shea19
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 09:33:11 EDT
On a hockey note... all Rangers players and staff reported to the Garden
today and are alive and well.
MikeLviv
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 09:36:50 EDT
Thank you, Colin Powell, for telling being straightforward with the American
people this morning. This is not going to be an anti-terrorist operation, it
is going to be WAR against terrorism. We cannot simply exact revenge for
this one specific act and be satisfied that justice has been done. From here
on in, it has to be a constant war, a constant state of vigilance, a
constant effort to hunt down enemies even BEFORE they strike. All is fair.
Either the countries that are aiding and abetting these people give them up,
or they should suffer the consequences.
JFC31
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 09:40:48 EDT
mike lviv..........dunleavy hit it on the head really........all you need to
do is remember the feeling you had while those sick demented maggots danced
in the streets in afganastan yesterday............if those pukes want to
help this prick by hiding him away there.........then prepare to
die............lebanon.....gone..........arafat.....gone...........hussien........GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 09:44:33 EDT
dont even tell me that economic sanctions will "show em".......this is not a
job for lawyers.....it is a job for the
marines..................period..........attack us.....die..........shoot
down our planes........die...........period................how many of you
all remember the cole bombing............honestly.....it seems like that
just slipped past us all............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 09:49:25 EDT
Badboy - I'm all for bombing the piss out of those who are responsible but
simply bombing people left and right because you are angry is not the
answer. A more reasonable editorial was run by the Daily News
http://www.nydailynews.com/manual/news/Attack/editorials.asp
MikeLviv
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 09:49:35 EDT
NYR PROSPECTS: Nothing like a hockey discussion to take ones mind off of the
sickening tragedy: From HockeysFuture: Top Prospects 1. Jamie Lundmark, C 2.
Dan Blackburn, G 3. Mike Mottau, D 4. Filip Novak, D 5. Peter Smrek, D 6.
Johan Holmqvist, G 7. Barrett Heisten, LW 8. Fedor Tyutin, D 9. Henrik
Lundqvist, G 10. Garth Murray, C 11. Mikael Samuelsson, RW 12. Dominic
Moore, C 13. Patrick Aufiero, D 14. Patrick Leahy, RW WHAT I Find unusual,
How is Samuelson #11 when San Jose claims he was their top prospect (e.g are
we that deep??); Also from what I am hearing Novak should be considered #1.
schneidw
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 09:50:44 EDT
here's my wifes take on some of this...........exactly how much $$$ did our
country spend fighting bill gates and microsoft.............how about hiring
him and microsoft to help design systems that could have helped avoid this
tragedy..........but no.........we'd rather spend millions trying to break
up his company........where's the sense to that...........that's more nuts
than blowing away these terrorists pukes........by any means
neccassary..........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 09:52:49 EDT
mike lviv............i hear you and i saw that news item as
well............but man it's so tough.......to not want to taste their blood
right now...........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 09:54:50 EDT
DEFENSE: As I look at the NYR lineup: What really concerns me is that Sather
DIDN'T Address (2) glaring weaknesses from last year (a) Defensive-minded
forwards; (b)Power- Foward ........ Lindros/Cigar are floaters AND actually
we should have kept Lacroix.... He was our only player beside Malhottra who
pressured defenseman and stood in front of the net
schneidw
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 09:55:47 EDT
mike lviv..........amazing too isn't it that our country can strip our
accounts if we go behind in irs stuff and such.........but they dont empty
that pukes accounts...........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 09:55:49 EDT
Lviv-I believe that bin Laden has his money in Saudi Arabia. I am not
exactly sure but I think we have asked that they cut off his access to his
money but the S.A. govenrment have refused to assist us.
ncbob
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 09:55:52 EDT
OT, Thank you, I think a lot of persons are reacting very well....EGAN, you
never miss a chance - do you? I cannot EVER remember being ashamed to be
American. This is a time to drop the obnoxious party lines and stand
together. For the record, the region you are discussing has very few
"Saints". Given the opportunity in the Balkans many have played the bastard.
Just the opinion of a very proud American, now and ALWAYS.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:02:50 EDT
ncbob - I'm trying to figure this out... bin Laden is in exile (from where?
Saudi Arabia)... if they exiled him why does he still have access to his
cash?... We can tell the Saudis you freeze his cash or we don't buy your oil
and we don't send you food - eat sand. As Mr. bush said anyone aiding and
abeting terrorists is our enemy!
MikeLviv
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:03:41 EDT
in some way.........this could be the time to say to some puke country like
saudi arabia...........do the right thing or ELSE!!!!!!!!!....and for once
back that up..........these pukes have too little fear of us.........their
image of america sadly is more than likely images of the ridulously lame
hamptons and fancy cars and crap that so many phonies feel makes them BIGGER
AND BETTER than others..............they're laughing at us at this very
moment...............time to show them what payback really
means..........NUKE STYLE.............i'm sorry but this is beyond anything
any of you can conger up........and i for on could give a shit about draft
choices SO CAN IT!!!!!!!!!!
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:04:25 EDT
schneidw - I agree with ya but if Lacroix is your best PF then you are in
real trouble.
MikeLviv
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:07:44 EDT
WIOSA: I really don't know what you're talking about since I clearly stated
that the bombing of Serbia was supported by all prominent Democrats AND
Republicans. Go back and read it. And yes I am proud to be an American, but
there are times when any decent person should be ashamed of their country,
and bombing the innocent CIVILIANS of Serbia was one of those occasions,
IMO.
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:07:49 EDT
NCBOB.....MIKE LVIV...........the trail of lies and deceit of there is so
deep.........we'll never know with full confidence what the real truth
is..........so why give them to enjoy or boast about their
ACCOMPLISMENT.......i heard that the guys in the van stopped on the GW
bridge were apparently dancing in the liberty park during the
blasts............their papers are being checked...........deport their
"f"ing asses out of here NOW!!!!!!!!!rescind their right to be in this
country....................
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:09:36 EDT
Yeah, isn't that great....we save the Saudi's asses from that Iraqi maniac
and they repay us by refusing to let us get access to Bib LAden's money or
at least cutting it off themselves. Reminds me us pulling France's ass out
of the fire in both World Wars and then they refuse to let us fly over thier
airspace in order to bomb Khadafy. It's time for Bush to outright THREATEN
the Saudi's in some way shape or form that will get them to cut Bin Laden's
money supply. The day we start weening ourselves off of these sleazy oil
countries is the day we stop having to make deals with them.
JFC31
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:09:54 EDT
EGAN.......nobody is keeping those people in serbia.........so just how
innocent do you really think they are??????????........how could YOU
know.......
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:13:27 EDT
EGAN: I don't know what to say to you really, but when we start bombing the
hell out of 'heroic' Afghans who fought the Soviet invasion in the '80s,
will you be ashamed again? Or will the party affiliation of the President
make you proud? There's not going to be any glory in this, whatever happens.
Bush -- ineffectual and in way over his head -- will get credit for anything
he does. And I agree we have to do something, but it will be ugly
nonetheless, another step in the cycle of violence.
Nick
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:14:38 EDT
Badboy: They're civilians. How could anyone justify bombing women and
children? It's immoral.
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:17:00 EDT
ALL, bomb indiscriminately? Sentence without a trial? Bar certain ethnic
groups from our shores? This is trashing our constitution - our foundation.
What he did hurt, what you are suggesting we do would destroy us...you would
hand him a victory that even he could never have dreamed possible. Stay the
course, keep living free. Give him nothing. Him seeing us living our lives
as usual is a slap in the face to him...Give him nothing.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:18:30 EDT
NICK: I could give a rat's ass what party Clinton belonged to. Did you not
read the part of my post where I clearly stated that the bombing was
supported by both parties? And how could I make it more clear that I do not
support the bombing of civilians regardless of who is president? Jeez, there
were actually people on this Wall posting that we should round up every
Muslim in America and throw them out of the country, and there was nary a
peep of criticism. We live in a very strange world.
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:23:00 EDT
PEOPLE GET THIS STRAIGHT..........anyone can say that they could be ashamed
of our countries actions from time to time..........but after
this..........there is no form of retaliation that our country could take
that would make me feel worse than i do now...............and if nuking them
could make me regret that last thought.......you know what?......I'LL TAKE
MY CHANCES..............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:25:20 EDT
WIOSA - I agree with you... all Afghans for example are not evil, but those
Taliban guys are plain nuts and should be dealt with.
MikeLviv
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:35:18 EDT
EGAN............women and children?????..........from what i could see,there
were lots of them dancing in the streets............of course we dont want
to hurt the innocents...........but the rest of them.......i want them in
pieces right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:40:01 EDT
OK EGAN..............tell us what YOU would have our country
do..............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:50:52 EDT
This country made a grave error in judgement in 1991 when President George
H. Bush did not listen to the suggestions of his military leaders, Colin
Powell, Norman Schwartzkov(?) among them, who strongly urged GHB to pursue
Saddam and eliminate/capture him essentially removing him from power. We, as
a country, sent the wrong message to all other radical factions that we
would be diplomatic. That is not a message that these extreme groups
understand. Since 1991, terroristic acts against this country have escalated
to what we have experienced yesterday. William J. Clinton is not to be held
innocent in this either. We have been collectively soft toward terrorists
for as long as I can remember. Were we barbaric to deport U.S. citizens of
Asian origin in the wake of the attack on Pearl Harbor? Were innocent people
deported and lives disrupted? Yes, but that was one effective measure taken
at the time. We not only dropped the ball on Saddam as I discussed above,
but let me ask, what are our spoils from that war? I'll tell you what one
should have been, that we were never again dependent on foreign oil. Not
only should we have a substantial military presence in the Persian Gulf, but
we should have a hand and a say in the operation of the oil wells in Suadi
Arabia, Kuwait, and Iraq. Any other country on this earth would have taken
its spoils from the country it defeated. Therein lies the future deterent to
antagonism and terrorism. Where is the deterent in diplomacy?
Fotiu
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:52:30 EDT
EGAN: I'm not looking for a fight; there's too much of that already. I'm
afraid, though, that any action we take is going to kill a lot more
civilians than terrorists, unless we know where bin Laden's base camps are,
and that's a tall order. Also, it seems the country wants a quantity of
blood. A co-worker of mine saw a sign on the way to work that said 'Nuke All
Towel-heads.' And this is Pennsylvania, not Texas or Alabama.
Nick
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:53:50 EDT
Egan, I said we should round them up and send them out. For one simple
reason, if they are not here they can not do such things. We can not pick
and choose who are the good ones and bad ones we do not know. So we make the
safest move the few ruined it for the many, it is that simple. I have
friends of islamic faith and they would have to go as well but htey are good
people. I don't think innocent people should be bombed I think enough lives
have been taken, but for the safety of the people of america we need to
remove the poison that has infected us. I still have people unaccounted for,
I don't know if you are that unlucky, but it is not something I ever want to
go through again. This isn't about bullshit fucking politics of clinton and
bush and gore that you bitch about this is on a level that is beyond that.
This isn't about a bad president this about the protection of loved ones and
our way of life. The few can always ruin things for the many and the many
end up paying the price. I am not talking about blood. I am talking about
letting them stand before god and answer to him when their time may come. I
am talking about a civil removal of these people who are more of a threat
then anything else. If you don't like my view I could give a shit less, I'm
not a political ass kisser.
York18
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 010:56:23 EDT
BADBOY: Well, obviously the 1st step is to use all of our resources to find
out who the guilty parties are, and bring them to justice (death). Then,
we're going to have to rapidly alter our intelligence collecting on these
organizations. Right now, we rely primarily on electronic surveillance,
which is almost useless against someone like Bin Laden, who is most likely
dug into a cave in the hills of Afghanistan. And most importantly, we're
going to have to come to grips with the simmering rage within many of these
Islamic countries. This problem can't be solved through force alone, unless
you want to witness a ship pulling into NY harbor in 10 years with a nuclear
warhead aboard. More dialogue (not appeasement) is required or else all of
the leaders of moderate Arab nations (Egypt, Jordan etc) will face the
likelihood of being overthrown by more extreme leaders such as the Taliban.
There are no easy answers, but indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas is
neither just, nor will it solve the longterm problem......And Marines are
used for amphibious warfare!!! Since Afghanistan is a landlocked,
mountainous country, air strikes will probably be the most likely action.
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:00:18 EDT
the president was just on..........he said in closing..........good will win
out over evil.........i sure hope so........but you know......some times
good has to DO some evil to win out over evil.............that's really what
this is about...........from time to time..........excesive measures have to
be considered.........i imagine they are now........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:03:40 EDT
Fotiou,,,RARELY did I agree with Bush Sr. He is the man I disliked the MOST.
HOWEVER, our word is our word. He gave his WORD to the coalition. For him to
go back on that word wouldve caused many, many problems. That was a group of
Arabs, siding with a ally of Isreal - against another Arab nation. IMHO, it
was a wise decision by him......NICK, I do not like GW either, however, I
think his handling of this incident has been fine. He is excersizing the
proper patience IMHO.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:04:26 EDT
Wow- check this out, the NYR were scheduled to stay at the Marriot World
Trade Center during camp, but rescheduled in May.
http://www.faceoff.com/home/news/story.html?f=/news/20010912/699245.html
iggy
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:04:35 EDT
FOTIU: The internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII was a terrible
mistake. We were fighting the Italians and Germans then, too. Should we have
rounded up all the Italian-Americans and German-Americans too? If not, how
come? I'm sure glad those German-Americans General Eisenhower and Admiral
Nimitz were on our side, though...YORK18: Your idea to round up law-abiding
citizens and expel them from the country on the basis of their religion is
the epitome of stupidity. This discussion is WAY OVER your level of
comprehension.
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:10:46 EDT
EGAN......army,marines,navy,air force,nasa,........hell i'll take any of
them at this point...........if this maggot is hiding out in the hills some
where.........do you honestly think that the country there has no idea where
that could be?...........i like this scenaro.........contact that
govt......tell them.......we're on the way to get this puke that is
there.....you people clearly have an idea where he could be.....so
simple.......HELP US..........OR DIE.........OR GET THE "F" OUT OUR
WAY......RESIST US IN THIS EFFORT.......DIE..........it's that "F"ing
simple.........none of this "well gee the inocent people there"....how
inocent can they be to stand by and watch this maggot........they should be
tracking down his ass now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!........to kill him off so we dont
have no choice but to consider doing them all in............and if your
answer to that is that they have no money.........well all they have to do
is ask.........our boys will be on the way...............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:12:57 EDT
YORKie,,That is unconstitutional. Again, you hand this man and his ilk our
Constitution. I reject this...totally. I reject any major changes to our
lives. Reality is, terrorism is always going to be a part of the world. For
us to change our laws, our lives - will be giving them EVERYTHING they
wanted and more. Rebuild the towers, increase airport security, use lawful
means to find and bring to justice the guilty parities, and continue with
our lives. Meanwhile,,there are still people alive in the WTC, let's hope
they get them all out.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:14:23 EDT
Greeting to all Ranger fans... I haven't posted in a long time but some of
you will remember me from the earliest days of the wall. Now that I'm living
in Boston, I want to reach out and express my solidarity with you guys back
home in New York. Here at the hospital where I work, we've been on "disaster
alert" for the past 24 hours. We were told that we would be receiving
survivors from New York but the most horrific thing seems to be that there
aren't even enough survivors to fill the hospitals in New York. We're all
praying that some more people will be dug out. I also want you guys to know
that everyone here in Boston is pulling for you -- the lines at the blood
donation centers were around the block. I tried to donate and was told that
there wouldn't be any more openings until early next week.
Ed
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:17:39 EDT
Hopeing everyone and their families escaped that terrible cowardly action
yesterday. I still dont believe my eyes.
quill
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:19:58 EDT
Foitu--- A correction on the Gulf War. Norman wanted the war to continue but
Powell wanted the war stopped. The reason behind his reccomendation was due
to the war starting to resemble a slaughter with the "highway of death" and
such. Powell commented that this type of assault was quickly becoming
"un-American." We had become afraid of public perception in the world on
that day. What always vexed me the most, is with our ability to move forward
that day, and our ability to airlift, why we didn't just not run around the
Iraqi army and invade Baghdad? My only theory was that had the Iraqi army
returned to Baghdad with us already in the process of seizing it, perhaps
they would want to reingage in warfare? Anyway, with Iraq ousted and the
stunning lack of casualties between the allies, it seemed that we walked
away without a scratch. Perhaps it was the best kind of war for America: a
video game.
E
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:20:23 EDT
badboy: I wish it was that simple, but it isn't. There's a reason that a
small country like Afghanistan was able to defeat a superpower like the
Soviet Union, and it's the same reason why we weren't able to defeat the
North Koreans. Fightin tough, experienced guerillas like the mujahadeen in
that type of mountain terrain would require a MASSIVE amount of US
casualties.
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:22:17 EDT
I say we round up all Malhotra worshipers and ship them out of the country!
:-) Just kidding. I sincerely hope that everyone and there families are safe
and well!
Tikkanen
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:23:21 EDT
I work in Hoboken, NJ, just across the river from the WTC, and today there
is just a smoldering plume of white smoke where the towers used to be.
Unbelieveable. A friend of the family works on the 27th floor of the first
building to be hit and he made it out OK. His son told my son that he had
gone to the lobby to meet a client when the plane hit. I have always been
reluctant to use military force, but we have to strike hard, not just at the
terrorists, but those who support them and applaud what they are doing. The
nations of the world have to show that there is a minimum standard that
needs to be met to be considered a civilized state.
paulf
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:23:35 EDT
YORK18...........right on bro..........my prayers go out to you and your
friends and\or co-workers..........i was having breakfast this morning in
the local diner here in ct..........a foriegn woman was talking on her cell
phone across the way from me........in possibly arabic.....i'm not
sure............i read my papers and ate my food .....but i have to
admit......the more i heard that voice and that language.......the madder i
got..........i hate this open door policy we seem to have here....people
should meet our standards to get in here and those standards need to be
re-vamped............it bothers me that our country is being taken over by
forgieners and\or 'out of towners"......THIS IS AMERICA FOR CHRIST
SAKES.....OUR LANGUAGE IS AMERICAN........LEARN IT................OR GET
OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:23:43 EDT
Invading Bagdad and overthrowing Hussein would have meant that the US would
have had to install a new government, keep large numbers of US troops in
Irag for DECADES, and would have profoundly altered the stability of the
region. We did not want to see the balance of power between Iraq and Iran
altered too significantly.
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:25:56 EDT
EGAN.......no it wouldn't cause massive casualties..............we're
talking atomic solution here pal.............not cruise missles on radar
sites...........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:27:04 EDT
Badboy- Im glad your not at the controls with all those big ideas of yours
to nuke nuke nuke. Who do you really think wed be nuking in effect? Egan-
Right on man and bingo. lol =^)
quill
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:27:45 EDT
Ed... from a longtime Wall reader and poster from the early days ("Mark"),
glad to read your words again. Last I heard you were in medical school and
wanted to be a team trainer, right? Nice to know you're doing well.
Zebop
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:31:59 EDT
BADBOY: So you never had any ancestors come to America from another country?
You are an ignorant fool.
Gibbo
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:33:34 EDT
I haven't been able to post out here due to some glitch (thanks Kara for
getting me back on) and want to express my heartfelt support for all of you
who live in or have family and friends in and around Manhatten. Kara, JFC,
Hospo, Melville, Despo and everyone else. I hope you are all okay. Our lives
all changed yesterday. The world changed yesterday. Suddenly Eric Lindros'
concussion status doesn't seem so important.
Gary
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:34:09 EDT
Why Americans are too cool to be kept
down..http://www.time.com/time/photoessays/wtcrescue/6.html.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:35:29 EDT
Wiosa? Bob? Anyone? I would appreciate hearing from you to know all's well.
Gary
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:38:44 EDT
EGAN, QUILL...........guys i'd love to go over this thing with you
2.......what do you say we have a lunch?......how about at mortons in lower
nyc.....you know the place near the wtc..........oh shit we cant.....it's
gone.........if people like you were to remain in control we'd be speaking
arabic or some thing else in no time........as a world wide symbol to show
the world how we like to give smaller countries their fair chance
here..............try to tell me that the next time you get on a plane you
wont look up and down the aisle more than ever.......and if you see a mommy
and dady and child.........no sweat.......but what about that towel wearing
or turbin wearing fellow.....HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:39:29 EDT
Down South here in Virginia, we are not the bastion of Roman Catholicism and
when we go to mass, it's safe to say the Church isn't filled...But at last
nights vigil, the place was filled to the rafters..Our thoughts and prayers
went and continue to go out to all New Yorkers and all Americans.....It's
pretty amazing but, Like me, many of the people in our small community have
roots in NYC and almost everyone was worried about the fate of at least one
relative, friend or aquaitance...So, while I have my own political views on
what we should do, damn if I can only think about all the people still
unaccounted (better then saying dead) and the handful of people both my wife
and I know that, last we knew, were working in the WTC and the Pentagon and
who's fate we still know nothing about...
Hospo
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:40:23 EDT
BADBOY and YORK18: I have more experience with rivalry and retribution and
the use of brutality than most people. I spent the better part of my early
life engaged in hate and though I don't particulary regret my actions, hate
based violence destroyed everyone of my friends from that period in my life.
It's easy to say certain things, but after you beat a man unconscious, you
will never be the same. That's all I have to say on this topic.
Traveler
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:40:37 EDT
BADBOY and YORK18: I have more experience with rivalry and retribution and
the use of brutality than most people. I spent the better part of my early
life engaged in hate and though I don't particulary regret my actions, hate
based violence destroyed everyone of my friends from that period in my life.
It's easy to say certain things, but after you beat a man unconscious, you
will never be the same. That's all I have to say on this topic.
Traveler
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:43:50 EDT
Badboy- Unless your full blooded Native American then your post about This
being America makes no sense. btw English is our language
quill
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:46:28 EDT
my family is supposed to go to disney on friday...........i cant see myself
going........for lots of reasons............1 of them being that it's really
the last thing i can imagine doing right now, having fun and such on
vacation...........this isn't about one man's opinion or
anothers...........it's about our entire country being strong enough to do
what ever is needed to let out the word that no one should EVER consider
this action on our soil again..............hand slapping sanctions wont make
that point clear............sorry to be the raw voice here
today..............BUT IT IS THE TRUTH...........LIVE WITH
IT.................or would you 2 prefer to go back to draft picks and free
agents..............that crap is over and out for now...................i
mean.......THIS IS ONLY THE WORST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO OUR
CONTRY.........EVER@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@#$#@%^#%&**&$#*............WAKE THE "F"
UP......................
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:46:51 EDT
Egan - There is one distinct difference between the Japanese and the
Germans/Italians during WWII. The Germans/Italians did not attack/invade our
country. Can it get anymore basic? I didn't say we should have deported
Iraqis during the Persian Gulf War because they didn't attack/provoke us.
Can't you see the difference?
Fotiu
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:49:46 EDT
QUILL........time to re-name our language then......time to re-think alot of
things really................this is america...........................i was
born here and i'll die here ..............i could give a rats ass if my
great great great great grand father was from scotland...............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:51:14 EDT
Hi Zebop -- It's nice to be remembered. I graduated med school and I work at
Mass General Hospital now. Before I came here, I lived in New York my whole
life. The day I moved to Boston, I realized how amazing New York is and I
decided I would be moving back as soon as my training was complete -- I wish
I could be there now, but since I can't I'm looking forward to moving back
someday soon and helping rebuild our fantastic city. TO YORK AND BADBOY: I'm
a proud American, a Ranger fan, AND a Muslim. The vast majority of Muslims
in this country and in this world are decent hard-working people. I was born
in Brooklyn and this is as much my country as it is yours. For the bastards
who did this -- I want to see them pay as much as you do. Stop plotting your
revenge on your fellow Americans and focus your hatred on those responsible.
The minute you start dismantling freedom and the Constitution in the name of
revenge, the terrorists will have succeeded in destroying the American way.
Ed
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:54:05 EDT
FOTIU: Yeah, I see the difference but it is a subtle one, IMO. Yes, the
Japanese attacked us directly, but we were still every bit at war with
Germany and Italy as we were with Japan. And I realize that the
Japanese-American community was not as assimilated into America as the other
two were, but still, it was completely unjustified, IMO.
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:55:29 EDT
Egan - In response to your post about overthrowing Saddam, what stability in
the region are you talking about? If anything our presence lent stability.
And what does it matter if we were involved with Iraq for decades while
nuturing a new government?, we are, and will be involved with policing Iraq
for the last decade and decades to come. I really can't follow your logic,
maybe you feel you are superior to others on this board and that is why you
claim that other wallsters who have reasonable points of view are below the
discussions at hand.
Fotiu
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 011:59:41 EDT
GIBBO.....as a english, irsh, scotish, frenchmen i dont know what to say to
that.............TRAVELER.......i'm sure i dont know what you had to
do..........but it's so tough right now to not want these bastards and their
followers in body bags........tell me this......did you feel worse then or
yesterday............hard for me to say..........yesterday is probably just
a very different thing to consider unlike your past thing which i think
could be more personal........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:00:42 EDT
FOTIU: Iran and Irag were at war with each other for much of the 1980's. One
of the reasons we didn't completely destroy Iraq was because we didn't want
to weaken them to the point that Iran would march in and take over their oil
supplies, and double their strength and wealth, as soon as the US troops
left.....As for feeling superior towards others, no I do not. However, I do
not agree that the idea of deporting millions of law-abiding American
citizens out of the country solely on the basis of their religion is a
"reasonable point of view."
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:03:26 EDT
My prayers go out to the victims and their families as well as the rescue
workers who are trying frantically to save those who are still be alive. I
spent most of yesterday in panic mode, worrying over friends and family who
work in the area--I went to Long Island City to pick up friends who had
walked over the 59st bridge--When they describe the situation as "surreal"
they are not exagerating--the masses of people walking off the bridge were
so quiet and shaken--thankfully everyone is ok on my end, but unfortunately,
like most people in NYC, we all know someone or of someone who is still
missing today--I hope we can continue to pray for them and their
families--their isnt much more we can do right now--their will be a time for
retaliation and we support whatever is done once the cowards are
uncovered--but for now, we can only pray and hope...I also hope most of the
wall family can check in and is ok...
Lazio
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:04:30 EDT
Jesus people. A tragedy happened yesterday and the last thing we need to do
on this Wall or in this country is to stereotype people or argue amongst
ourselves. First off, LAY OFF EGAN. This all started when WIOSA misread his
post. He did not say anything wrong and was not being "political." So lay
off him. Second, the moment we start saying we need to get rid og Muslims or
Arabs, that is the day that the terrorists won. We are NOT a country who
does this. We are the land of the free and the home of the brave. Many
Muslims are helping with the rescue. To say that these people are not
American or should be removed from the country is absolutely ignorant,
UNAmerican, and plain offensive. The people who should be targeted for our
anger are the people who perpetrated this. Whether they were Muslims,
Afghans, etc.. is besides the point. They are our enemy, not our fellow
citiznes who are Muslim. I understand the anger and the need for vengenace,
I feel it hear in Atlanta, but displaying it towards our fellow Americans is
just plain ridiculous. Show the pride and unity of America, don't be
divisive. And don't get all political and hypocritical by saying the
President is over his head or you don't like him or whatnot. It's time to
pull together. Stop the madness and stop being the problem.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:06:49 EDT
BADBOY: I hear you about the next time you get on a plane but it's not the
turbin-wearing person you should be worried about. It's the guy NOT wearing
anything and trying to appear normal that is the problem. And only increased
security and measures in airports will help alleviate those fears.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:06:53 EDT
GIBBO.......dont call me ignorant just because i have the balls to honestly
say what i feel in my heart...........show some guts and tell us what you
really think........not what you think people here want you to say......THAT
GOES OUT TO EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!.......political correctness does very little
for us at this point in time............political correctness is for
sissies...........political corectness in some ways had a hand in us being
where we are now...........THINK ABOUT IT............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:08:28 EDT
Mike-Again I am going from memory here so I could be wrong but I believe he
still has holdings in SA. He also has holdings in Pakistan and alot of other
countries. He owns businesses that probally do alot of business with
American companies. If you want to read some stuff on this nut job:
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ladin.htm ,
http://www.abcnews.com/sections/world/dailynews/terror_980609.html ,
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/bin-ladin.htm ,
http://usembassy.state.gov/afghanistan/wwwhtr01.html
ncbob
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:08:37 EDT
KILL: Very good post. The reason I brought up my past was to make the same
point: if we give in to hate as a people, we will have lost something of our
nature and I don't want to do that as a society.
Traveler
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:19:18 EDT
KILL.......you are right on there...........look i've had enough of this
baby crap.........people dont like what i feel or think........i really dont
care.......if i'm the raw voice here.......i advise you all to look at one
of the vids from yesterday and look in the mirror..........and being honest
with you self.........you will see a person looking for revenge ......not an
understand person who want diplomatics
resolutions.............period..........political correctness is just nut at
this point in time .............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:24:13 EDT
KILL/QUILL: Thanks fellas. If the time ever comes, I'd gladly share a
foxhole with ya.
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:24:21 EDT
Hospo... I hope all your friends are heard from soon, as well as anyone else
who may be affected by those still unaccounted for. I consider myself lucky
to have heard only good news about those close to me.
Zebop
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:29:44 EDT
FYI....600,000 Italian-Americans were forced to where identification badges
during WW11, they were put into interment campos and their property was
PERMANENTLY confiscated by the U.S. government. Look it up. The same words
come back year after year after year in this country....get rid of
foreigners, they only cause trouble, they are stupid, they are lazy, they
are dangerous. Italians were abused in this country....killed, lynched,
beaten....why? Because they were all in the Mafia. They couldn't be
trusted....we would be better off getting rid of all of them just so we can
keep the Mafia from spreading. That's the same thing that is now being said
about Muslims as a whole, about "towel-heads"....we must get rid of all of
them because we don't know which ones are involved in terrorism. Why don't
we lynch them? Hey, that's what they did to Italians in New Orleans in the
late 1800's....the largest mass lynching in U.S. history....because they
were Italians. (BTW, it's in a movie called "Vendetta" which coincidentally
stars Christopher Walken....relating to a convo on here last wweek)Can't we
learn from our mistakes? Innocent people suffer when you start talking about
THEM and US. These fanatics attacked AMERICA....we are Americans....do you
see the people on the news now, holding pictures of their missing relatives,
crying, devastated, lost, confused....completely traumatized? Black, white,
Asian, Indian, Pakistani....they are missing and/or dead because they are
AMERICANS. I'll bet you some of their relatives wear tourbons on their
heads. This talk about deporting people is disgusting. MAybe we should all
take this to another board somewhere before this gets too ugly for this
board.
JFC31
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:32:46 EDT
TRAVELER.........i take it you were in the service?.........i never was and
can have no idea what it feels like to kill....but is it wrong to want the
world over to recognize us as an open and friendly country..........that
will blow away some one who dares to try to hurt us?????.......i'm not
saying that we should put out the feeling of fear.........but isn't that
part of it a little bit????..........the fear of retaliation can go along
way in the world as we know it...........why didn't we nuke the
russians?.....fear of retaliation..........why not them on us.......same
deal.............cant that work here at least a little???????..........these
fearless suicide bombers out there aren't worrying about us.........maybe we
need to make sure they do.....if by taking those kinds of people out help
our futures........we have to consider it........and what message does this
send to their kids..........a few weeks ago..........there was some story
about a suicide bombers kid holding the paper with a picture of his dad
..............saying that he wanted to do exactly what his dad
did...........kill others........how can he really deserve to
live?????.....how can he be classified as an innocent person............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:33:13 EDT
On a hockey note, the Rangers will be skating at MSG BUT the practices ARE
CLOSED to the public. It's probably best to stay out of Manhattan right now
and leave room for the emergency crews.
Traveler
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:39:25 EDT
To take your mind of some things, TSN has a new Rangers report on its site:
http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/preview2001/rangers.html A word of warning,
it's not too optimistic.
Traveler
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:40:22 EDT
JFC31.........i hear your thoughts our history has lots of bad chapters in
it............but this one is now there as well and i just cant fathom what
to expect next.....i guess that's where my anger is coming from.............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:43:27 EDT
I agree with what KILL and Traveler said. If we start seeing a terrorist in
every American of Arabic or Muslim origin, if we let that turn into fear, if
that fear starts being acted upon, then the terrorist act has achieved so
much more than the terrible loss of life that has already occured. There are
Americans talking about "removing" other Americans from our country just to
be safe. It's crazy and debases everything we are as a country. We are all
the descendants of immigrants. Now, as far as immigration laws go? I'm all
for tightening them. Deportation of certain non residents? That may have to
happen. I think war is a forgone conclusion, and I am on the side of MAJOR
and devastating force toward the terrorists, their harborers, and ANY
country even expressing solidarity toward them. Tens of thousands or
millions of innocents will die and I don't think there's any way around
this. The world changed. But we as Americans will stand together, and that
includes those of christian, jewish, buddist AND muslim faiths.
Gary
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:44:07 EDT
JFC31..........i tell you what though............take a long look at that
picture of that kid skating on the front page..........at 5 yrs
old...........as his father it breaks my heart to have him or any other
child have to grow up in a world that has so much anger, hatred, and evil in
it...or to have to try to explain it to him...........i want it to be as
safe as possible, for all humans...........this act is just mind
scrambling..........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:47:51 EDT
EGAN: Not a problem man. Let's just hope we don't have to share one. I
didn't want you to get attacked for something that you didn't do or say. And
no one should question you being an American since you served for our
country. I have the utmost respect for you for that.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:51:07 EDT
on the radio, there's talk of having the state police take over the baggage
checking and such at airports.........no more checking in at the drive
up..........spot checks on the road at anytime or place.............a whole
new ball game...........and sports will probably be off till next
week............and no flights yet.....the 12 noon deadline has been
extended...........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:52:21 EDT
KILL,,I did not misread his post. So find someone else to dump on.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:53:25 EDT
BADBOY: I understand your feelings and I don't want to see any of that
bleeding heart sentiment right now either. I have no patience for it and I
also agree that that and PC is one of the problems right now. BUT, I don't
think Americans, whatever their religion or background, should be harmed,
singled out, attacked or deported UNLESS they are found to be enemies of the
state. Just attacking someone cause he's a Muslim is not right. Attacking
someone cause he's associated with Bin Laden is the correct thing to do. I
tell ya, I HOPE there is a country tied to this cause it's gonna be very
hard for us to attack a small band of people. I mean, where do we start? The
public will want some bombing or some BIG attack to satisfy the anger and
bloodlust. ANd calling for concessions or diplomacy right now is, to me, the
way of the weak and what got us in this problem in the first place. Freedom
is a hard thing and sometimes hard measures have to take place to ensure
freedom. I hope we can blast those bastards off the earth but, if there is
no clear cut way of getting to them, then it will be harder to do.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:54:01 EDT
Kill- Good obsrevation man on Wiosa post to Egan.I read back to see what
started this and it was all when she did that to him. Here i thouhgt it was
some one else. Funny how things snow ball and you dont now why till way
later. JFC- I feel the same way dude but it may take a while for people to
get it off their chest. The sooner we get to hockey the better but if it was
only that easy. Traveler- Its a breath of fresh air to here theyre at least
skating. We sure could use some more hockey to talk about. Egan- Just bring
cards and a flashlight and ill be there with you guys =^)
quill
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:54:37 EDT
Gary, Im here,,thanks for asking.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:56:09 EDT
yeah, and I bombed the Oklahoma center too...and I personally flew those
planes into the WTC, now Im leading the attack against all Arabic peoples.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:56:49 EDT
WIOSA: I'm not trying to dump on you but you DID misread EGAN's post which
caused Nick to come in and say something political which caused a snowball
affect and then there were several posts towards EGAN that was negative. You
interpreted what he said as political. No one is blaming you but it
happened. No one else interpreted is as political until YOU said something.
If you can't see that then I am sorry. No one is getting on you.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 012:59:09 EDT
egan, gibbo, quill, and all............folks i cant expect anyone here to
understand and\or agree with my feelings or thoughts............i dont think
i ever tried to achieve that.........but to me this thing has just gone over
the top...........i just dont know............i will tell you this
though.............just thinking about my son and the youth of
america.........i just feel like crying now..........i'm affraid we're all
in for a very shocking and turbulent time here.........remember this
fact........we are are delta 1 or some thing like that.......that is the
term for war..........and i doubt it will be some kind of iraq type
deal......i have this feeling it will be bigger...................much
bigger..........i mean we're not talking some car bomb here...........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:02:20 EDT
KILL I did NOT misread his post, NICK and he have battled all the time about
political crap. I took issue with him proclaiming his feelings of shame
about being an American when Clinton bombed the Serbs. He is ALWAYS digging
at the Clintons, but that was not the gist of my post. People took issue
with him crying for the Serbs, people who months before took to ethnic
cleansing. My post was and still is, THIS IS NOT THE TIME.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:04:06 EDT
KILL......damm man..........you and i have to get to a game and a dinner
some time soon.............you could be one of the few that understands
me...............and i've thought that for some time now............it's
just so hard............still sinking in i guess.........i find myself
looking back to trips to nyc and windows of the world for dinners and
such..........and just feeling very low..............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:05:35 EDT
Hey Kill, well blame me. Im evil, **I** am the cause of all the evil in the
United States. I dont believe in hunting down people and killing them - WHOA
must be a commie or something. I have posted all day and night,,I LOVE our
constitution,,I love our people. I will give them nothing. And I stand
UNITED with GW and all parties. Protect our nation. I am totally Evil KIll
and worse yet,,I still think Messier sucks.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:06:05 EDT
Badboy- Dont worry dude were all in it together.We need to stay together as
one unit and strong as a individual and well get through this.
quill
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:06:06 EDT
FBI barn storming hotel in boston.....westin hotel...........on cnn...msnbc
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:09:34 EDT
fbi apparently has bags with how to fly vid and such in it.......and some
witness said that he had altercation in parking garage yesterday with some
guys...........it seem that these could have been them.........their car may
have had stuff in it................
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:10:43 EDT
BADBOY - I have some of the same sediments to the outside world and what we
should do to countries harboring the terrorists....But, as with Hockey and
my opinions, I know there is a good chance I am wrong! So, that gives me
pause... Still, make no mistake (where have I heard that), this and our
response is the defining moment in time of our generation (mine and that of
you whippersnappers)....I was too young to really remember Vietnam, and the
only historical moment etched in my mind was the assasination of Bobby
Kennedy....Until yesterday....Everything we do will now, I think, effect the
lives and liberties of our kids and future little ones...And here I was up
until yesterday worrying about when to schedule and hold my son and
daughter's hockey and soccer practices...
Hospo
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:16:26 EDT
Kill - Let me ask you, if the responsible party turns out to be a small
faction, or many small factions, which is probably the case as opposed to a
whole country, how do you suggest we proceed?
Fotiu
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:18:46 EDT
HOSPO............yes...........same here....greg has mites tryouts next week
end..........and we were supposed to go to disney on friday..........i hear
you.........thankfully we are also going on oct31st as well.....so hopefully
we can even then......who know's at this point......i just cant see it
happening on friday...........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:23:10 EDT
Kill - If you think those posts to Egan were negative, what do you think of
Egan's comment to York18?
Fotiu
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:32:14 EDT
FOTIU...as the President has correctly stated this was not terrorism but an
act of war. Once identified, the country harboring this "small" faction,
will have 72 hours to turn them over to us or suffer the consequences of
being reduced to dust as was the world trade center.
MelvilleFred
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:32:50 EDT
It is disheartening to see sqauabbles on the wall today, but it is
completely understandable. This is an emotionally turbulent time for every
human being on this planet. No one should have to apologize for their
emotions, and I'm not asking for people to change their views, but there are
many things to consider. YORK- I'm sorry, but you may have meant well in
your post about exiling certain ethnic groups, but that is hardly the
answer. The problem is that we need a face to place on this evil, and unlike
WWII, there are no clear features to identify. I had this same discussion
with my wife, who was crying and demanding that we stop letting people into
our country. She wouldn't admit to herself that she was really saying keep
out the Middle Eastern people. But that is what it is. Prejudice. PRejudice
does stem from lack of understannding and fear. Some of that fear is
justified, but we have to look beyond that. I am so glad that ED spoke up
about his background. It may make it harder to group people based on their
race. BADBOY- This isn't about political correctness, it's about being an
AMERICAN. WE are founded on ideals that demand we don't respond this way.
It's hard when we are struck by tragedy. My first response was to think of
violence, and I still want revenge, but I started thinking about what that
violence could lead to. The risk of Martyrdom makes it a very tricky
challenge. WE need to neutralize more than just one man and his minions, but
his money and his influence. How do we do that? Would Nuking the entire
country of Afghanastan accomplish that? Weren't we sure we had killed Saddam
Hussein? And won't killing anyone near this guy just raise an entire future
generation of children with revenge in their hearts? When does it stop? AS
WIOSA said- WE CANNOT let them alter the ideals in which our country was
founded! That is of greater vital importance than any revenge we can
extract. I don't usually agree with EGAN, but I think he was wrongly
attacked (not just by WIOSA-who might have misread his post, as I did at
first, but we are both trained to look for the Political right, so it's
understandable!) As far as the Serbia thing, I don't have the background
knowledge of the Serbians that Egan does, so I am willing to give him the
benefit on the doubt. I know that BADBOY will consider my comments "weak"
and I do not want to perpetuate an arguement that is not needed after
yesterday, I just want to point out that there are no simple answers.
Terrorism, faceless and cowardly, is the real enemy, and let us not forget
that.
ColoradoMark
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:39:03 EDT
People who take advantage of situations are horrid. There were reports of
independent Gas Stations charging up to $5.00 a gallon for Gas yesterday.
That truly sucks.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:42:55 EDT
More news from Boston: Right now there's a madhouse in Copley Square -- The
rumor is that they arrested someone at the Westin Hotel, now they're
evacuating the building because a bomb dog sniffed something. They're also
saying someone's injured inside the building.
Ed
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:43:34 EDT
Wiosa- please don't think I was attacking you, as you have my utmost
resapect and I agree with pretty much everything you have said today. My
post was lengthy and I did not get to see your response. ALL- Remember this,
it is easy to get our blood boiling when watching the celebrations
yesterday. BUT remember that the children celebrating are either brainwashed
by their families or by the government controlled media which paints our
country as the great evil in their world. They do not have the benefit of
freedom of the press, which with all it's faults, is one of the most
important constitutional rights. BIN LADEN has brainwashed kids like Hitler
and the Hitler youth. It was chilling and disgusting to watch him run
children through military training exercises. Do we hold these children
responsible for their actions? Like I said. THERE ARE NO EASY ANSWERS, no
matter what our emotions want to say. BTW- I DON't see anything wrong with
people who come to this board and want to talk hockey. Different people deal
with things in very different ways. Some of us need, and are entitled, to
meaningless distractions. WE should not condemn those who come to discuss
hockey if they feel it necessary.
ColoradoMark
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:43:50 EDT
On a more ominous note: Yesterday Mass General was placed on disaster alert
by the Defense Department. They just told us we're coming off disaster alert
because they don't expect many more survivors.
Ed
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:48:44 EDT
WIOSA: We had a client in yesterday, he was staying at the Drake Hotel his
rate was $225 a night..well when he called to book the same room for last
night and tonight, the rate went to $450, how's that for gouging and taking
advantage of a tragedy.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:53:50 EDT
ALL: Just to clear up a few points, I condemned the bombing of Serbia for
the same reason that I oppose the economic blockades of Cuba and Iraq, two
governments that I am hardly sympathetic to. I just do not believe that
innocent civilians should be made to suffer because of the actions of their
governments when at all possible, whether they be Serbian, Afghanistan, or
even Canadian! And I do not believe the country of Serbia was entirely
innocent at all; no countries are. I just can't believe we bombed them UNTIL
they surrenderED their holy land to a mob of lawless KLAers......PEACE TO
ALL ON THE WALL!!!!
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 013:56:16 EDT
Egan, I must have typed and erased this 20xs, because I do not want to write
this in anger, or without a clear head. Last night I was venting as well as
this morning. I still have loved ones unaccounted for. I hope you are not
going through the same thing, but judging by your posts and your arrogant
comments I doubt you are. It is easy to say what you do when you have lost
nothing. I know what I said isn't the answer, but leaving our borders open
for more of them to come in and do the same is not the answer either. We can
not realisticly get intelligence on these people unless we are in with them.
They hide and live like rats in a cave where they plan these things out.
These are not sophisticated people in the sense that intelligence will
really work. I don't believe bombing is the answer no matter how hurt or
angry I am. Enough lives have been lost, taking more is not the answer
either. Like I said I believe in letting them answer to god, because
whatever we will do is nothing compared to the eternity of pain they will
face come their judgement day. Does the whole world turn on them? Do you
bomb every country that hides them? Then we are not better because we are
killing innocents as well. There is no easy solution to this situation
violence or not, like I said I was venting last night and today. Now I am in
a more calmer state. But from what I am reading from you is nothing for the
most part. I have faith in Bush, he wasn't my choice for president but I
certainly have faith in him and believe he will do the right thing. But
something has to be done before the next thing that happens is we are seeing
nuclear and chemical weapons being used against us, because that is the next
step. With all your talk, I'm curious what is your answer to this solution
since you seem to know better than everyone on the board about anything
about politics.
York18
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:04:40 EDT
Colorado et. al....here's a news flash...the people responsible and the
peoples of most Mid East countries HATE US! That's whether we retaliate or
don't. We as a country have to come to the realization that the goal of the
people responsible for this heinus act is the destruction of the US of A! So
while we knash our teeth and debate the current tragedy thei're already
planning the next one!
MelvilleFred
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:04:45 EDT
Personally.....I am just relieved and happy that 3 of our family members who
work in Manhatten are ok and finally got home safely.....and a son who was
in the air at that time was not affected.I'm not sure that the magnitude of
this tragedy has been grasped yet.....Egan....you are quite right in your
postulations and have my support......but I just wish we could all put any
ancilliary debates aside for the moment.....It ain't the right time.
archie5
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:04:46 EDT
Ed, Colorado Like I said I was angry and very hurt the last 24 hours. I have
calmed myself and seen a different view. I do believe there is a problem I
even called a few friends that were Muslim to hear their points of view on
what happened. They too were very hurt and upset by this. Again I was angry
and venting, that is the only thing I can say about that post....Colorado I
am not prejudice, I am not prejudging anyone, I am saying you close the
doors to them for the one reason that the bad ones will slip through. We
don't have italian, greek, portugues terrorists etc not once but twice
attacking the WTC we have the same people doing it. That is a problem that
needs to be addressed, I don't mean vigalante justice on the streets where
innocent people are going to be beat down, which I am sorry to say may just
happen, but I hope it doesn't. I saw an arab couple today and you could see
they were frightened while walking the streets and all I could think is if
something happens to them I am one person and there is nothing I could do to
stop it, but I would have tried. I am not afraid to die, I slept fine last
night with no fear of not waking up. I just think too much damage has been
done to be welcoming them in with open arms and handing them visas anymore.
York18
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:05:38 EDT
BADBOY: Anytime man. And don't worry about your feelings. It's gonna be a
tough road ahead for everyone but mostly for the victims and their families.
Let's just hope that some good can come out of this. Right now it's hard to
see it. Justice will be served, eventually.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:06:07 EDT
WIOSA, DoubleN: I don't know if you guys listen to Bob and Tom in the
morning, but those people trying to make $$ off the situation were arrested.
They reported this morning, those people specifically charging $5 per
gallon. They mentioned that Pataki said any of this sort of behavior will
not be tolerated. Can you believe the audacity of the scumbags who did it
though?
Sherwood
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:06:57 EDT
YORK: That's cool man, and I can understand that. We're all a little on edge
after this tragedy. My only point was that you might not have understood the
ramifications of such actions. To deport and/or punish any American citizen
that hasn't been proven guilty of a crime, simply because of their religion,
would require eliminating the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights, for
which a lot of American blood in places like Valley Forge, Normandy, and
Inchon has been spilt to preserve. And that would be eliminating the
American Way, which I'm sure none of us want. So let's just chalk it up to
venting after this horrible episode, and remain friends. We all want the
guilty parties to be punished, and we all want people to be able to live
their lives in peace. It's just that sometimes we don't always agree on the
best way to accomplish those things.
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:07:35 EDT
FOTIU: I have no clue what should be done and, if I did, I wouldn't be here.
SOMETHING has to be done but what and how is beyond me. We have to find the
guy first and that has been a problem for a long time now. As for EGAN's
post, yeah it was negative but I was responding to all the people who
misinterpreted it. I didn't like seeing that snowball affect and had to stop
it before it got out of hand.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:09:08 EDT
DOUBLEN......tell that client friend of yours to call the justice dept....or
the local people....i heard on the tv that any reported acts of pirice
gouging will be treated harsely..............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:10:49 EDT
i tell you................it seems hot in boston............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:11:29 EDT
WIOSA: I tell ya, you are the Queen of melodrama. Go ahead and twist
whatever I say aroung and never take responsibility for your words or
actions. Lump me in with all the "bad people" in your eyes. I dont' care.
But my GOD do you twist things around and see them only in your way. Get a
grip and get over the melodrama and stop trying to get sympathy for
yourself. NO ONE said you did any of the things you are crying and bitching
about now so put a stop to it. If you want to continue making yourself a
victim, go ahead. You misread his post and others saw it. I never attacked
you but pointed out a fact. EGAN was on the wrong end of the
misinterpretation. It happens and I didn't want it to snowball. If you feel
like everyone is blaming you for something, then feel free but realize it's
all in your own mind. Please feel free to continue your rant towards me. I
know what I saw as did others. And NO ONE blames you for anything except
misinterpretation.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:14:06 EDT
WHAT'S SICK??? Some guy on TV jsut claimed to be a survivor of the WTC and
got on air and made an ass of himself. I think Katie Couric hung up on him
or something and called him an idiot. There are some sick people who will
take ANY advantage of tragedies. Those are almost as low as the people who
caused them. In some cases, they are worse. Sick bastards.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:14:50 EDT
Egan, it's cool, I think between being beaten to death with it on every
channel and then just knowing people are still missing just pushed me over
the edge. I wish that they would have had regular TV on for a bit just to
lighten the situation for but a moment instead of replaying the crash over
and over again. I think people will eventually become numb to seeing it as
it is being shown over and over again. I just hope the best for everything I
don't see violence as the answer to all of this.
York18
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:17:30 EDT
Melville,(and all) I agree, these people hate us. But you have to think
carefully about retaliation. I want revenge and I can live with innocent
people dying if it would eradicate those who did this and ensure less chance
of future attacks, but that's the rub. There is no sure way to guarantee
that. There's a great editorial on Slate, that covers the problems with
reflex retaliation (as tempting as that is). here's the link:
http://slate.msn.com/Earthling/01-09-12/Earthling.asp AND please don't think
I am saying that there is a non-violent answer to this. I don't. I would
just like to take the BEST violent response that would eliminate future
violence. There's a great book called "Ender's Game" by ORson Scott Card
which deals with a lot of these issues in a very indirect way, especially as
far as retaliation goes. It's not a political novel, sci-fi, but very
interesting.
ColoradoMark
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:18:38 EDT
PEOPLE.......AND I MEAN ALL OF YOU.........we don't allways agree here on
the wall or for that matter with other friends and\or family we
have...........but i tell you all this..........no matter what happens i
will stand beside my fellow ameracians during this tradegy........expecting
some of us to approve or dis approve or the actions taken..........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:19:59 EDT
KILL - I hear you on these low lifes. In that vein, I commend New Yorkers in
this time of trouble..Disgraceful yes, but it is times like these that lead
low life scumbags to loot and committ crimes while the police force is
occupied---I haven't heard anything to that effect......COLORADO MARK - You
hit on a few items that really keep me puzzled (in my mind)--regarding the
closing of our "borders", I knda agree with your wife...I know this is a
country of immigrants and that's how we were built, hell my father was born
in Italy and my mother in Scotland, but times have changed....No matter what
their background, any American citizen is as American as I ...But with the
way the landscape has changed, the increases in population, and the
depletion of resources, closing our doors to immigration is not totally
wrong in my mind..We need to look after our own--that includes everybody
here.......Deporting is another story.....As far as retaliation, there is no
easy answer....Yes, the optimun would be to deploy a succesful surgical
strike that kills Bin Laden, and cuts off the head of his organization..THe
martydom factor doesn't bother me because I think he already has his
fanatics and new recruits won't have the brainwashing Bin Laden teach
them.... But surgical strikes, diplomacy, and embargoes just won't do the
job, IMO....Will Mass bombings and destruction? I don't know...But if there
is a country harboring or abetting Bin Laden, then I think we are at war and
I have no problem whatsoever going thru that country with all our might to
accomplish our goal (if they refuse to help us)....The hatred will be there
anyway...And ,you know, No matter how much aid and money we give to the
World, the Americans are always wrong in times like these...Screw them..OK,
I just got off on a tangent..
Hospo
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:21:51 EDT
EGAN, KILL--I too would share a foxhole with you two anytime. This is not
the time for mindless bickering, and EGAN, whose opinion I have and will
always greatly respect, was just stating his opinion and got attacked for
it. KILL, you know youre still my 'big brother' on the board, and I tell ya,
after reading the Wall last night and this morning, I was prepared to write
basically what you did in general and defending EGAN. Glad you did it first,
as your words were perfect and more eloquent than mine wouldve been. ALL, we
must band together--everyone does not agree on Messier, Nedved, Lindros, or
even what to do here or who to bomb/wage war against, etc. But what i DO
know is that the only way our country will get through this, AND WE WILL, is
to unify and support each other. When we start saying that people who we
know and love should be thrown out of THEIR country, we are truly letting
these madmen win. As many have said, these AMERICANS are not the problems.
And as KILL said, if there are "Americans" who are found to sympathize with
that scumbag Bin Laden, hopefully they will get what is coming to them,
along with the awful countries who are no doubt somehow, whether minorly or
intricately involved in this terror.
chinstrap
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:21:56 EDT
York18- We're all on the same side. I'm as much a New Yorker as any of you
and I still have friends in the city who I can't get in touch with. My dad
works in the WTC area and was lucky enough to get out before the buildings
came down. I know what you're going through, what we're all going through.
We need to stick together through this. One of the most heartening sights
I've ever seen is thousands of Bostonians lined up to donate blood this
morning -- that's the kind of spirit that makes us Americans and will
ultimately make us triumph.
Ed
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:22:38 EDT
nothing can ever be as tragic as a death in ones family........but i for one
as an electrical contractor......want to also remember all of the people who
work tireless hrs and yrs to build the towers in the 1st place..........and
those who died doing it as well.........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:30:52 EDT
CHINSTRAP: Welcome to the foxhole, good buddy. We got a helmet ready for
you, unless you have the Kiwi Shoe Polish HairDoo like Belleboy, and don't
need one. :)
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:34:25 EDT
Hospo- That was exactly my wifes point, and I can see that side of the
arguement. The problem is that there are so many illegal immigrants that we
group illegal ones with legitimate ones. I think that my wife, and I'm sure
there are many others, whose fear is based on a subconscious prejudice.
Remember that although there are the odd terrorists who immigrate here, the
majority are fleeing to our country to escape oppression and to go to a
counrty where, in principal, they have the same opportunities as everyone
else. I guess I'm a bit of a tree-hugging liberal, but it's hard for me to
deny that opportunity to those that want to better themselves but can't
because of their government. If most of the people emmigrating were
European, we would probably not be calling to limit their entrance. We have
to look at why people want to come here, and how that ties in with the fiber
of our countries constitution. I do agree with you on retaliation. I have no
problem with casualties in the name of revenge, but I do want to make the
best possible decision. I think there is a way to flex our might, force
countries that don't make every effort to hand over terrorists to think
twice about not cooperating, and scare the bejeezus out of future
terrorists. Unfortunately, innocent lives will probably have to be
sacrificed in order to accomplish this.
ColoradoMark
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:39:27 EDT
it's really quite premature to make any blanket statements.
MRD
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:40:47 EDT
MARK - remind me again where you played in college?
MRD
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:44:57 EDT
MRD- New England College (ECAC EAST- Henniker, N.H.) I'm good friends with
Pat Morrison, who I believe was the starting senior goalie when Bret came
into UNH (along with Pat Strzun-spelling).
ColoradoMark
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:51:20 EDT
God Bless America. And to all of you in or around the city, or with family
or friends there, may God be with you. Although I live in NC, I grew up 30
mins south of NYC, and I'm still in shock over what happened to the best
city in the world, and our nations capital as well. We will find out who did
this, and there will be hell to pay. It is hard to contain the hatred that
is brewing in me, and I am sure many millions of others. I can't wait to get
those f876ing bastards. God bless everyone.
Mo
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:52:55 EDT
EGAN: Since I have met CHINSTRAP..he doesn't have the shoepolish hairdo.
Also, just want to say that I appreciated your vast knowledge of all of this
and have learned alot from your posts.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:53:25 EDT
Hey everyone I have been staying out of this discussion because I just don't
want anger to cloud the better part of judgement. on the other hand here is
an interesting article I lifted froma message board on another site I
thought it was worth a read. Sorry it is long. America: The Good Neighbor.
Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable
editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
Commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as
printed in the Congressional Record: "This Canadian thinks it is time to
speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least
appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent,
Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who
poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of
these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to
the United States. When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was
the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and
swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When earthquakes
hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This
spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into
discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about
the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those
countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar
build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to
equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If
so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except
Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider
putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and
you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles.
You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not
once, but several times - and safely home again. You talk about scandals,
and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look
at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on
our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are
getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. When the
railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was
the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New
York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still
broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of
other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else
raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even
during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone, and
I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They
will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are
entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their
present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."
ospreyranger
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 014:54:28 EDT
One thing that can be said for striking back hard is that it was pretty
effective against Mu'ammar Qadhafi. He had a better understanding of the
consequences of his actions after his palace was bombed and his son was
killed. It really slowed his terroist activities down. Sad to say it but
maybe this is the only thing a terrorist like bin Laden may understand.
Also, if we need to deport non US citizens from countries that have been
known to sponsor terrorism then maybe that should be done also. At least
until we can get a better idea of what is going on. This is a different day
and age then when my grandparents got off a boat at Ellis Island. But the
really sad thing is that these "pilots" or at least some of them may have
been trained in FL aviation school. So we may have trained and indirectly
helped these terrorists to complete their mission.
ncbob
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:00:39 EDT
DOUBLE N--Glad to hear youre ok, hope all is relatively well.
chinstrap
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:07:18 EDT
Osprey-That is beautiful!!! Also true. Our people and that includes our
corporations and charities do more for peoples in distress then their own
governments do. Thanks for the article.
ncbob
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:08:44 EDT
ospery...........wow that says alot..........to me canada is a wonderfull
place i wish i could get there more............this just in...........a
train staion in rhode island....has apparentl been exacuated for an on
coming train that could have in it terrorists that may have escaped from
boston.............on the news........and radio
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:11:21 EDT
ospreyranger - Thanks! Great article..Right on 100%...We bend over backwards
for everybody and get shit on for thanks..What I started posting on below
but stopped because I was getting too pissed.....COLORADOMARK- In the best
of times and worlds our doors would be open to everybody, and everything
that giant lady with the big torch says would be true...That's what made
this country so great...But things change and this is not the best of times
nor worlds and our first priority as a nation is to look after the well
being, needs, and saftey of our citizens...This is hindered by the US being
the lighntening rod and clearing house for the hopes and dreams of people
from other countries...There are only so many dreams and hopes to be cared
for...
Hospo
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:12:26 EDT
CHINSTRAP: Thanks..all is well, just working from home and have not been off
the phone and e-mail, as we have a major client who does not want to
advertise on tv and radio for the rest of the week.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:14:46 EDT
DOUBLE N: Thanks so much. We've got a place in the foxhole for you too!
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:16:09 EDT
EGAN - If you're gonna be in that foxhole, who's gonna be my wing-man? :)
Hospo
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:20:26 EDT
HOSPO--with me, you and KILL in there, i think we have filled our quota of
clueless jackasses :)
chinstrap
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:21:25 EDT
HOSPO: Hey wingman, you're grounded. Time for the flyboy see how the grunts
live. That's why they make those pilots wear sidearms, baby!
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:28:30 EDT
HOSPO- Believe me, I see your point, I just don't want to change our
country'sideals as a result of a terrorist act. It's too much like letting
them win. BTW- You have too many "right" wings on your line. Kind of like
the Rangers! We need a little levity around here. OSPREY- Thanks for sharing
that. It's nice to see that at least someone realizes that it's easy to
forget all the good that the U.S. does for all these other countries. MRD-
well, if you live with a goalie, I think that increases your intelligence
level. I know my wife must be smarter after living with me;-)
ColoradoMark
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:32:49 EDT
EGAN: That foxhole seems a little crowded, so I'll say topside. I will say
however that although we disagree on 90% of things political, you are an
honest and non-doctrinaire individual, and I salute that. Even after some
violent arguments -- mostly on the 'toy store' stuff like sports, but today,
more serious -- eventually, most Wallsters reach accommodation with others'
views if not agreement. It's a testimony to them.
Nick
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:33:52 EDT
COLORADO not to worry, I dont think you were attacking me. KILL as you will
see, others have asked people to DROP the side issues. One more time real
slow and in simple words. I DID NOT MISREAD HIS POST. I accused YOU of
nothing, you started this shit, I am not interested in persuing
it.......DOUBLE that truly sucks. Honestly, I am all for capitalism,,but
there is a line... ARCHIE, amen,,,you are more articualte then
I.....DOUBLE/BADBOY....That is good, the arrests and all, but I dont know if
what they are doing is illegal..RAYNGER might know more on that...
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:34:11 EDT
MARK - Abel is a typical goalie.
MRD
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:35:36 EDT
MARK - Are you from NH? How do you know those guys?
MRD
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:36:09 EDT
CHINSTRP - Yeah, the Flying Clueless Jackasses would strike fear in the
hearts of the enemy!..:)...ColoradoMArk - True enough, I would like to keep
the ideals too and let my kids grow up in the same open world as I did..Just
don't know if it's possible any more..Hope it is.....And you're right about
the needed levity, sorry...Usually why I stay away from "political"
discussion...Just got caught up today...
Hospo
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:37:09 EDT
Interesting stuff going on in Boston. They reported that 2 houses were
rented. One by a family, the other by 2 guys. All three men were pilots from
Saudi Arabia,,according to what THEY told neighbors. Apparently they all
move out over the weekend. I dont know how true this story is, but it was
just on the radio.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:38:24 EDT
MARK - yeah, Abel says he knows both, one from Ont., one from PEI.
MRD
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:41:00 EDT
And just as aside to the article I posted, yes other countries do offer aide
but not with the abundance that we do. I don't want to slight their efforts,
it is just that you can only bite the hand that feeds you for so long before
it pulls away. Remove US money from the world economy as a stabilizing force
and we will be hated even more so. Also if you get a chance try and listen
to BBC broadcasts if your able, you will be surprised at the unilateral
disgust at this awful act. Finally, I am pissed! For the majority of my 29
years I have been able to look out of my house and see the tops of the twin
towers. They were etched in my brain like so many other landmarks in the
area. When I would come home from college, I would pass over the Driscol
bridge on the GSP see the towers and know I was only 30 minutes from home.
Besides the loss of life these people have scarred a group of people
considered to be the toughest of all americans (no disresepct to those in
Philly and Chicago), an act most thought unfathomable. Good luck you
bastards, because like was stated earlier "there is nothing worse than
pissed off New Yorkers!"
ospreyranger
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:42:43 EDT
ospreyranger, I'm with you man. I have been in United States Arm Forces for
the past 8 years( 3 in the NAVY, 4.5 in Army National Guard). Thought my
travel, while I was in the Navy, I have found only one place in the world
that likes Americans. That was Australia. Everywhere I went Asia, Parisian
Gulf, Middle East, people hates America. I think it was most remarkable
finding. I can care less if we drop nuclear bomb on the Afghanistan. If Ben
Laben is guilty, and Afganistanian government support him. Nuck the
bastards. Next time they will think twice. People around the world hates us
as it is. Nothing will change that. Nothing. Being Russian, I still hold
personal grudge against afganistanians. When I see what is left of World
Trade center, I'm not just getting upset, I'm getting furious, specially
when I see Palestinians celebrating on the streets. This has to stop. It
have to stop now. Two of my relatives used to work in the World trade
Center. One was late for work yesterday. When she arrived, the first
building was already on fire. If she would have arrived on time, she would
have being dead now. She used to work for Smith and Barney. My other
relative, got out of the building a minute before the tower collapsed. As
you can see, I'm very upset. This is the time to unite behind our president,
our government. It is time to solve the problem by any means necessary.
andrei
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:44:49 EDT
Osprey,,that is very nice, thanks for sharing it.....BADBOY they just
arrested someone in Rhode Island....COLORADO, nice post, forgot to say that.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:51:33 EDT
ANDREI,,I think that the Norwegians and Poles are very fond of America on a
whole....OSPREY I too find our skyline strange looking, Im sure theyll
rebuild. Anyone know if the Marriott is still standing??? Also some good
news 5 more, in additon to the 7 earlier have been pulled from the wreckage
of the Twin Towers. I love to hear that. They are also asking for
Vetenerains to go to the site, the tracking dogs are getting injured,
espescially in the eyes, yet they keep right on looking for life.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:51:34 EDT
WIOSA......illegal..........who knows......but why take a chance........take
a look at the guy they arrested \detained in boston......he practically
looks like bin laden himself.........this is spooky.............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:53:06 EDT
BADBOY, I meant the gougers, but youre right. If anything it will humiliate
them and scare the hell out of them.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:56:00 EDT
ANDRIE.......great to know that they got away unscratched..........and thank
you for your opinions on the world views of us..........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:56:09 EDT
MRD- I worked with Pat M. at a hockey camp for many summers in PEI, my
summer home. That's where I coached and worked with Richards the super
rookies form TB, whose name I always drop. I'm not from N.H., but I went to
many UNH games when I was going to NEC. Pat introduced me to Brett Abel
after a game once. He was a good kid from what Pat said about him. Does your
buddy know the Cushing guys I went to school with?
ColoradoMark
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:56:30 EDT
NICK: Thank you my friend, and I return your salute. One of these days,
either in Philly or NY, we're gonna have to have that beer(s) and discuss
the genius of The Contract With America. :)
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 015:59:59 EDT
This was a pretty chilling read.
http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/afp/article.html?s=asia/headlines/010912/world/afp/_Bullseye___say_Egyptians_as_they_celebrate_anti-US_attacks.html
ncbob
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:00:07 EDT
EGAN- I want in on that conversation! You can bring Archie with ya! ;-)
WIOSA- Thanks! BTW wasn't the Marriott the hotel the Rangers were going to
stay in and wasn't in one of the towers? I am still confused when I see
pictures of the skyline w/out the towers, as I have never known it without.
Blows me away.
ColoradoMark
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:03:01 EDT
NATO has come out and said that this is not only an act of agression against
the US. This is an act of agression against all of the NATO memebers.
ncbob
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:06:38 EDT
Colorado, yes, I believe so, but it was next to 7WTC, and it was on fire.
The airline fuel is a bitch to put out apparently. These firefighters are
used to skyscrapers, but theyre really struggling. You will note that at
least 2 of the planes were bound for L.A., they were loaded with fuel.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:09:59 EDT
CO MARK: Done! Although if the subject of vouchers comes up, I suspect we'll
have to move onto something stronger than beer. :) Me, Archie, and Bob vs.
you, Nick, and what army? :) BTW, I saw you mention a Sci-Fi author earlier.
Are you a fan of Marc Halprin? I know he's a Sci-Fi writer, but he is also a
former officer in the Israeli Army, who often writes about political and
military issues. In fact, he gave the commencement speech at West Point a
few years ago. Anyway, he's got an article about this terrorism business at
opinionjournal.com (Wall Street Journal)in case you're interested.
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:15:19 EDT
Damm!!! check this out............i get this fax from my wife at her office
a few minutes ago............from guy named jeff in the usa....on the topic
of possible bombing.....quote "i aggree that the early evidence leads us in
that direction, but we MUST be sure before we act............any of the sand
boxes where nutjobs were dancing in the streets over the deaths of thousands
of innocent people seem to be morally defensible targets............If the
language these people understand and celebrate is the language of mass death
without warning, then by God, we should speak to them in such language,
loudly and clearly, so as to be understood once and for all.............i
dont think i can really say it better than that.......i dont think anyone
could............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:15:35 EDT
WIOSA: Juan Gonzalez had a column in the Daily News today in which he quoted
a fireman as saying he was in the Marriott when it collapsed. As to whether
the complex will be rebuilt: A partnership led by Larry Silverstein bought a
99-year-ground lease on the complex this year for $3.2 billion. They paid
$616 million in cash and took out about $700 million of mortgages to make
the down payment. The senior $583 million of the debt, which was sold to
bond investors, carries a provision in it that requires the owners to
rebuild it to its current size in order to collect on the insurance
proceeds. The complex is insured by a syndicate of 34 insurance cos. So he
may have to rebuild it, although it probably will be a while before all the
legal issues get sorted out.
paulf
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:19:11 EDT
MARK _ I have not asked him yet re: Cushing.
MRD
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:19:52 EDT
PAULF, thanks for the information,,Im said to hear it collapsed. Interesting
on the ownership and lease requirements..I always thought the PA of NY/NJ
owned the WTC.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:26:38 EDT
EGAN- Please email me, mbbliss@earthlink.net as I would like to talk books
with you. You mentioned a book on ancient Greece and I think you would
absolutely love the books in the Ender series. I don't want to bore anyone
with a book talk, even though we have gone from Ranger Chat to Crossfire
once again. I had an email crash last month and completely lost all my old
email and addresses.
ColoradoMark
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:28:09 EDT
I forgot all about the black boxes. Apparently they have the firefighters
searching through the rubble for the two black boxes from the airliners.
Theyre hoping to get some information from them. I wonder if they could
withstand the heat from those fires? I mean this heat took down these huge
superstructures that were built to withstand an impact from a plane.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:28:10 EDT
I forgot all about the black boxes. Apparently they have the firefighters
searching through the rubble for the two black boxes from the airliners.
Theyre hoping to get some information from them. I wonder if they could
withstand the heat from those fires? I mean this heat took down these huge
superstructures that were built to withstand an impact from a plane.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:30:58 EDT
BADBOY409, ncbob. I want to see how much selebration will be going on the
streets of downtown Cairo, if we drop couple bombs on that f.cken sity.
andrei
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:32:44 EDT
CO MARK: I'm actually leaving very soon, but I have your address, so I'll
drop you a line tomorrow. BTW, the guy's name is spelled Mark Helprin, and
although he's a novelist, he might not be a Sci-Fi writer after all. Got my
info mixed up on that one!
EGAN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:35:50 EDT
ANDRIE, osprey......i tell you this.......the money train from here to
anywhere in the world needs to come to a screeching halt if this is the
thanks we get...........it is time to re-look at just WHO our allies really
are.............
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:40:16 EDT
ncbob...........could you send me that link to that story......i cant seem
to get it to load.....jferris102@aol.com.......like i need any fuel to my
fire!!!!!!!!!
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:42:22 EDT
I thought this was a good
read.....http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/956258/detail.html
Sherwood
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:51:20 EDT
WIOSA: No problem. You brought it up and started it. I was defending someone
on this Wall who was wrongly accussed by you. Deal with it. For someone who
tries to act so mature, you resort to childish insults and innuendoes
quicker than anyone on this Wall. So in the interest of "dropping it", which
I doubt you will EVER do, I will drop it. Keep on justifying your argument.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:53:41 EDT
I'm not sure who posted the Egyptina article but I am so amazed at how
little the world really knows about us. We are afraid to face someone????
What are these people high??? My God, they'll see how afraid we are after
this. Maybe it's all this PC crap that BADBOY and I hate that makes them
think we are afraid. Damn. My only concern is what will happen to the world
temperature when all that glass starts reflecting heat back into the
atmosphere after we take care of business?
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:57:07 EDT
chinstrap: Big Brother??? I'm not sure how bad that is. ;-) I have to say
you probably would have made your post much more eloquent than mine and it
owuld have passed a spelling check as well. LOL I'm just glad people see
that EGAN did not say what some people thought he was saying and it didn't
turn into a slam-fest on him. There is too much anger around for something
like that to not accidentally happen. BTW, who is bringing the tp for the
foxhole? I got the beer.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 016:58:26 EDT
Badboy-article is on its way.
ncbob
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:00:56 EDT
COLORADO MARK/EGAN - This guy Mark Helprin has written a little bit of
both..Some fantasy-tinged stuff (A Winters Tale) and a great book I read
quit a few years ago called "A soldier of the Great War" which was the
recollection of an elderly Italian as he looked back on his days in WW I..
Hospo
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:01:27 EDT
KILL: Since EGAN said I could be in the hole, I'll bring the TP..you don't
do those Red Bulls and vodka, truly one of the most disgusting things I ever
tasted.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:01:39 EDT
ANDREY: TO echo your thought, even countries who are our allies hate us.
Most people in the world do and it pisses me off that we go out of our way
to help those countries and they turn around and slam us. I think HOSPO said
that earlier. Sometimes I wish we kept with, I believe it is, the Monroe
Doctrine. But we have too many interests to do that. I am a first generation
American since my whole family was born in Holland except me. And even I
feel that we should be harder on immigration policies and such. There is no
other country better than the US. And I feel that if there is a need to go
to war, then there shouldn't be any arguing with that. The acts of war have
already been committed, now it's our turn to show the middle east and the
world our resolve. And I don't think they'll like or realize what they'll
see. I believe it was Yamamoto siad it best after Pearl Harbor was attacked,
"We have awaken a sleeping giant."
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:03:21 EDT
DOUBLE N: LOL. Is Red Bull that energy drink? If so, I've done Red Bull and
Jaeger which was pretty darn good. Of course, by that time I was pretty much
gone and my taste buds turned all to hell. ;-) They are selling that here
now in Atlanta. It sure makes Waffle House food even better and it was good
before.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:05:14 EDT
Just heard that a 9am United Flight out of JFK going to lA yesterday..the
crew did not let 3 Arabs on the plane.
DOUBLEN
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:09:56 EDT
That should be LA. KILL: Yeah, it's that energy drink, can't believe what
you mixed it with.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:11:29 EDT
So far I have heard from not one of my friends who worked on the 101-105th
floors of One World Trade Center, Cantor FitzGerald Securities. There was an
estimated 1,000 people working for them. Although I am holding our hope I
understand the reality of any possible survivors is extremely slim for my ex
co-workers. I got news from someone who did Business with them. Apparently
them received a telex from a Cantor employee saying "Help us, we are F'in
dying." I think we should hunt down whoever did this, only those who are
responsible. HATE is a terrible thing and is contagious. Killing innocents
will only turn those who think we are justified in our actions against "the
terrorists" into enimies against us. There is enough bloodshed in this
world. Let's not reduce ourselves to the scum terriotists by bombing
innocents. Bring Bin Laden AND SADDAM into Justice. DO NOT ASSINATE them. A
Public hanging is much better and more painful than a bullet in the head.
Let them think about death and feel the pain of choking that so many people
here in NYC died from OR maybe all the family members who have experienced
loss from this can form a line a poke them with a knive until BOTH SADDAM
and BIN LADEN are dead. An eye for an eye ........
DarthSather
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:14:12 EDT
DOUBLEN.......my wife just called me and told me that too........apparently
the crew had bad vibes and felt that the guys were acting funny..........so
they were refused entrance to the plane......where are they now
though?????????.......i hope that security has them......but it is possible
they walked away scot free..............NCBOB.....chilling story...........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:16:24 EDT
KILL-That was me..bob in nc(now ncbob). I look at things like that on TV or
read them on the net or in a newspaper and I get really disgusted. I think
it is best that we no longer look at them as Egyptians, Palestinians,
Iraqis, etc. The allegiance is not to the goverment and country or even to
their arab neighbor it is to their version of religion. I don't know if you
have ever read the Koran but it is not violent. The Bible is much more
violent. However it is translated and interpretted so the meaning gets
twisted. If your interested here is a link that explains some of the history
of the Koran and its interpretation.
http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_chittick.htm
ncbob
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:24:15 EDT
WIOSA: The Port Authority sold the complex a couple of months ago, although
technically, they still own the real estate. In simple terms, the
Silverstein partnership bought the right to collect lease payments on the
buildings for the next 99 years ... According to one report I read, Cantor
Fitzgerald has only been able to locate 85 of 1,000 employees who worked at
the complex, and virtually all the survivors were not on site when the plane
hit. They occupied floors 100-105 in the first building to be hit.
paulf
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:26:05 EDT
HEY KILL.....you'd really get a kick out of my waffle house menu i got when
i was at disney once before............i have it on the wall next to my
rangers stuff and all!!!!!!!......with those mini faces and
illistrations..........too funny
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:26:19 EDT
I just received a GREAT E-MAIL. Unfortunately I don't know anyone's E_Mail
here or have a web-link so I'll post it here. It's a bit long so I apoligize
kara. THIS, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing. America: The Good
Neighbor Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian
television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant
remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: "This Canadian thinks it is
time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the
least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan, and to a lesser
extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the
Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in
debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States. When Grance was in danger of
collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward
was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw
it. When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that
hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by
tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those
countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like
to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the
United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the
world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or
the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the
International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other
land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk
about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German
technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy,
and you find men on the moon...not once, but several times, and home safely
again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the
store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft dodgers are not
pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa
at home to spend here. When the railways of France, Germany and India were
breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the
Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke nobody loaned them
an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the
Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even
one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think
there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. Our
neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of
hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this with their flag
high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their noses at the lands
that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of
those." Stand proud America!!!!
DarthSather
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:28:37 EDT
Bullweiser: One can Budweiser, one can Red Bull. Pour half the Bud into a
cup. Let the foam die, pour in half the can of Red Bull. Swirl. Repeat. This
should be enough for two Bullweisers. Tasty and potent.
Traveler
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:29:30 EDT
mike and the mad dog have a terrorist professor on the air now.....very
interesting stuff......he feels that there are several 1,000 followers of
bin laden that have allready been living here in the usa.....from maine to
fla.......all over........scary............that his followers are world
wide..........
BADBOY409
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:30:10 EDT
professor paul braken from yale
BADBOY409
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:38:58 EDT
ncbob: That was you then. yeah, I've been looking at that too. One place
I've looked at is www.canoe.ca which is the Canadian online news service.
There are some great articles and some good editorials. Much like the one
that was posted by the man from Toronto. One article I found interesting is
that teh Afghanistan people don't want Bin Laden, who they call "The Guest",
in their country and are afraid for US retaliation. Seems they know
something we don't and they don't hate us like other people. I am also
wondering if they are Arabs or Persians(Aryans). A good friend of mine
explained the difference to me and it was quite and argument/discussion.
There are difference in the two that are very profound even though you may
not physically notice. One of the reasons that Iran is not widely backed by
the Arab nations is because IT is not an Arab nation and that makes me
wonder if Afghanistan or Pakistan are Arab nations or Persian. Many of the
Arab nation do condemn the attack and some even caution us to look before we
leap which I agree with. In Berlin, there were flowers in front of our
embassy and signs asking us not to start WWIII. It is intersting what is
happening in the world. My relatives in Holland all say they fear a war
coming over this attack. Many people around the world are VERY scared over
what we are going to do, except for some middle eastern people. The next
couple months are going to be very interesting. I am also going to check out
that website you gave me since I am interested in those things. This tragedy
has brought out a lot out of everyone in the world. And I do agree with what
JFC said, and he said it before any newsman said it, that our world as we
know it has changed. And like one Canadian editor said, "Gone, I suspect,
will be America's almost pathological desire to be loved -- something to
which Canada also aspires. Silly asses. Instead, American foreign policy may
become mindful of the rule of Rome. For those who need reminding, when Rome
ruled the known world, it imposed order and respect -- not love or
popularity.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:48:21 EDT
Just want to say hi all. Just got back from the disaster yesterday, and feel
blessed to be writing this. Many of us lost friends and family yesterday,
and we owe our cops and firemen a debt of gratitude for their heroism. The
media that exploits the negatives about cops should be ashamed on days like
yesterday. I was under 1 WTC 7 minutes before the 1st plane crashed. By the
time I got into my office, 2 blocks south, we were watching tv when they
showed a fire(we had lost sound in the first crash). When the subtitles said
it was a plane 5 minutes later, we were watching with curiosity like
everyone else. Minutes later, a huge explosion knocked out everything in the
office and shook the building. We had no clue, but figured a bomb or gas
explosion, and headed for the stairs. When I hit the lobby(13 floors down)
there was obviosly chaos out in the street. Security told us all to stay
inside, but when a guy came running in and told us a 2nd plane had crashed
into the other tower(he had glass all over him), I knew it was terrorism. I
immediately thought about the towers possibly falling, so I took 2 coworkers
with me and went outside. There were people wailing and debris everywhere.
People told me there were bodies just down the block, so I wanted to be as
far away as possible, so I walked East. I stopped at the river at South and
Wall, when my phone kicked in and I spoke to my wife. She told me a plane
just hit the Pentagon, and to get the hell off the island. I was able to get
on a ferry that was normally reserved for high speed trips to South Jersey,
and they brought us to Hoboken. We were 500 yards from tower 1 when it fell,
and it was something I'll never get out of my mind. There were lierally
thousands of people between it and the Hudson river, and the rubble and
smoke just enveloped them. People were screaming everywhere, and I must say,
I felt as if the world had ended. I felt guilty for being on the ferry, just
out of distance from the danger. People were fainting, or crying
uncontrollably, and yet,through it all, most New Yorkers were stellar in
helping each other. I am proud to work among them. We were silent as we got
on trains in Hoboken(I live in Ct., but no longer cared where I was
going)and then the trains stopped as all power was cut. I wanted to run
screaming, and so did everyone else-we were so scared that more terrorism
was awaiting us. Someone saw that the second tower had fallen. Most of us
will have lost many friends and loved ones,(three of my friends are
missing,one of whom we called after the 1st crash who said he was on the
stairs and would call us when he got outside) and I pray to God that he
bless those who died in that horror, and we avenge what happened here
yesterday, so that all these people whose lives were changed forever will
have some closure.
puckyou
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 017:51:58 EDT
EGAN: Wow, talk about taking a couple hours to catch up on so many posts. I
really just wanna second what DOUBLE N said to you earlier at 11:52. All I
gotta say is in my book there aren't too many prouder Americans than you and
I'm glad to know you. I always look forward to our talks and friendly jousts
we now enjoy here. AFAIC, there isn't a more consistent poster than you,
whether or not we're agreeing or disagreeing at the time, and at a time of
national crisis like this I want to add that I thank you for having taken
the time to serve this country as a US Marine. I hope you, KILL, chinstrap,
DOUBLE N, and Hospo save a little room for me in your foxhole. Is it okay if
Belle jumps in, too? ;-)
Sassy
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 018:03:59 EDT
THIS IS FREAKY!!!............... "In the city of God there will be a great
thunder, two brothers torn apart by chaos, while the fortress endures, the
great leader will succumb." "On the 11th day of the 9 month that..two metal
birds would crash into two tall statues..in the new city..and the world will
end soon after." 'Nostradamus 1654' Lord help us.
Louie
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 018:14:20 EDT
puckyou: That's an absolutely amazing first-hand account and it's so good
your alright. Thanks for sharing that with us.
Sassy
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 018:15:56 EDT
Some photos that make me feel the world is okay
......http://aolsvc.aol.com/news/photogalleries/gallery111_jw05_k1_3.adp AND
http://aolsvc.aol.com/news/photogalleries/gallery111_jw05_k1_5.adp AND
http://aolsvc.aol.com/news/photogalleries/gallery111_jw05_k1_7.adp AND
http://aolsvc.aol.com/news/photogalleries/gallery111_jw05_k1_8.adp AND
http://aolsvc.aol.com/news/photogalleries/gallery111_jw05_k1_11.adp
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 018:27:34 EDT
KILL havent the faintest idea what youre talking about, IM not calling
anyone names, YOU are the one that came in and blew everything out of
proportion, and said I did it. I didnt make Nick or anyone debate the worth
of Serbia, nor did I bring it up. Get over it already, there is a lot more
shit going on. TWO people in my office of 12 are looking desperately for
relatives. One from the Pentagon, and one from the 105th floor of the WTC.
When do you stop this stupid shit? ...PUCKYOU, glad to hear you are okay.
That is harrowing. I was in a fire at 140 Broadway, I remember the
firefighters telling us to go UP. I kept thinking, fires burn up, Im not
going up. I walked down the stairwell in pitch blackness with a whole bunch
of other people. It was scary stuff. I really learned to appreciate
firefighters after that.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 018:34:35 EDT
puck: I was just talking to a guy who was at 60 Wall and he said a lot of
the same things you were saying. Next time you get to Hoboken, look me up. I
could tell you which direction to go.
paulf
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 018:35:08 EDT
Really curious, Bin Laden is a real scarey person, for sure, however..the
man doesnt deny things he does. Yet, despite him pronouncing his joy over
these attacks..he still adamantly denies his involvement. I dont understand
why he would do that. Afghanastan isnt going to throw him out, he
practically is their economy. Yet he still denies it wholeheartedly. Really
strange, Im beginning to wonder...
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 018:37:50 EDT
Paulf, I dont think the Marriott has totally collapsed yet, but they keep
saying it is in danger of collapse. There was a second collapse of one of
the Twin Towers, all rescue personell were being pulled, according to 1010
Wins in NYC
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 018:42:18 EDT
According to what I am watching on NY1..5 is collapsing and One Liberty
Plaza is starting to collapse.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 018:46:48 EDT
Double, yes, according to the radio on the way home, they were warning of
it's immenent collapse. I guess structurally it really doesnt matter, as I
dont think at this point they will 'fix it' anyroad. I do hope all are out,
and assume so since nobody is reporting that there are people trapped in
there.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 018:55:14 EDT
WIOSA - WRT bin laden admitting to it, there was a reporter explaining that
he may not have known about it, but it's still within his org. They also
said that there are 10 to 15 "directors" as the reporter stated, maybe
disciples is a better word than he used, that acted on their beliefs
instilled in them by bin laden. Bin Laden is quoted as saying "praise be to
allah" for inflicting this carnage upon the US. Either way, he's done....I
only wish he could be made to feel ALL the pain he has inflicted before he
dies.
Sherwood
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:02:27 EDT
WIOSA: I have to say you are a master of misinformation and twisting of
events. I knew you woulnd't drop it so I won't go on. It must be an
interesting little world you live in to not see the things you do. Your
revisionist history is amazing. Maybe YOU should be in politics.
Unbelievable. LOL
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:04:42 EDT
Louie: I heard yesterday, and I don't know the validity of this, that the
Jewish(???) new year starts soon, or something liek that, and they are
calling it the TIme of Tribulation which is talked about in Revelations.
Now, I'm not saying the Sky if Falling or anything. Just interesting.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:06:52 EDT
Louie - there have been alot of fake Nostradamus predictions going around
right after teh crash. My guess is that is another one of them. Every little
thing, the terrorists, the celebrators, the gougers, makes me agree with a
quote from another site I read - People are broken. Not all, but a
frightningly large number.
CHICAGORANGER
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:07:28 EDT
KILL: The Jewish New Year starts Monday at sundown.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:14:20 EDT
THIS WAS THE PART OF EGANS POST I REFERRED TO **Several years ago, in one of
our nation's most despicable moments, and one of the few times in my life
that I have been ashamed to be an American, our President Clinton, with the
full support of almost all prominent Democrats and Republicans, sent our
military to bomb this heroic country to hell, until they finally were forced
to surrender their most holy land of Kosovo to a gang of lawless,
nun-raping, drug-dealing, narco-terrorist Albanian Muslims known as the
Liberation Army (KLA). Yeah, that's the very same KLA with ties to, guess
who, Osama Bin Laden. *** THIS WAS MY RESPONSE **EGAN, you never miss a
chance - do you? I cannot EVER remember being ashamed to be American. This
is a time to drop the obnoxious party lines and stand together. For the
record, the region you are discussing has very few "Saints". Given the
opportunity in the Balkans many have played the bastard. Just the opinion of
a very proud American, now and ALWAYS. ** Nick debated the issue of the
Serbs with him, Egan said I misread his post, we moved on to the debate on
the Serbs and Saddam Hussein. NOW, WHAT are YOU talking about? It's
ridiculous. I made nobody do anything, and as you can see I never called
Egan a name.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:16:48 EDT
CHICAGO, wow do you really think so? I get just the opposite feeling. I
think that people are really pulling together. Dont let the gougers get you
down, or the morons that need attention. I really think that people, for the
most part, have been fantastic, resilliant and great.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:19:54 EDT
SHERWOOD, are you saying that there are sectors of Bin Ladens group that
work independently of him? This took a lot of planning, people and MONEY. Do
you think it couldve been done by his people without his knowledge? I
dunno..that's a rough one. BTW, there is a video shoot taken by someone of
the first plane hitting the WTC. It is being shown on CNNs site. I cant get
it, havent a clue why.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:24:07 EDT
Heard something interesting..the guy who locked himself in the bathroom,
with the cellphone (God was he brave) said in part of his conversation "We
have been hijacked, this is not a hoax, this is not a hoax, weve been
hijacked, this is not a hoax." Then he said "I think a bomb just exploded, I
see smoke, we're going down, the blame is going down" End of conversation.
That is interesting since most reports say there were no bombs on the
planes. I wonder if we shot this plane down? It was the one that crashed in
W Pennsylvania. I
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:25:17 EDT
According to CH11 news here in NY, the Rangers first home pre-season game
vs. NJD this coming Wed. has been cancelled. No word of this on the NYR
website, though.
iggy
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:26:25 EDT
DOUBLE N: Since I have no knowledge of this, does the Jewish New Year have
any special names like the Chinese New Year? Or is there any specific
signifigance? Just curious as the radio guys down here, the one who talked
about this was Jewish himself, said this.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:27:39 EDT
You know when I worked as he Director of a residential treatment centre with
very violent kids who were basically societies throwaways, I used to talk to
them about the THINKING BRAIN(cerebral cortex) to us and the SNAKE
BRAIN(limbic-hypothalamic system to the initiated. And I come on here today
and see some people using that thinking brain and some people fixated in the
snake brain. Because when the snake brain is ON the thinking brain is OFF.
So EGAN my congratulations for demonstarting you are a man of reason, and
BTW, your analysis of the Serbian situation from a historical perspective
was most illuminating. As for you who advocate bombing every Muslim or Arab
all to hell or even more stupidly herding them all up for expulsion, you
have lost your capacity to reason and now live in the land of rattlesnakes.
And funny thing even when we are talking about something totally apart from
hockey the same thinking styles remain constant. Why is it that the same
people who misinterpret hockey posts misinterpret non hockey related posts.
If you can't interpret correctly the others point, regardless of agreement
then you are at sea. Just a viewpoint MHO.
Belleboy
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:31:08 EDT
Bell: It's human nature to see only what you want to see. Hell, I do it
sometimes. When you tell yourself a lie enough times, you are convinced it
is the truth. I believe people used to describe Montreal Canadiens fans of
that when they talked about their team in hockey sites.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:34:33 EDT
KILL--Rosh Hashanah is the name of the Jewish New Year
chinstrap
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 019:53:36 EDT
KILL: If you work in New York the other name is Rosh 'a homa. It is the Day
of Judgement as according to the Torah if we understand the meaning of the
day and use it properly then we will indeed receive a favorable judgement.
Also according to my faith it is the birthday of the world as it was on this
day that G-d created man on the 6th day of creation. 2001-2002 is the year
5762.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:02:30 EDT
NON-POLITICAL POST....Saku Koivu has been diagnosed with non-hodgkins
lynphoma of the stomach....anybody got a read on that? I'm assuming that non
hodgkins is maybe a good thing?
MelvilleFred
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:05:15 EDT
WIOSA - I'm just passing on what the reporters are saying. IMO, I believe it
to be possible he had no idea of the plan. There are numerous examples I
could cite, one being a simple comparison to business hierarchy. Do you
think a CEO knows what the lowly engineer is doing? I don't, but they are
working towards the same goal. I think you can see my point. I don't follow
the reasoning that they needed money...reports say they used credit cards to
pay for plane tickets, rented apartments and cars, etc. They may have been
trained HERE to fly planes. My point is this: They could have used America
to finance their activity. Isn't it scary that Visa or MC could have
financed this? Our own money!! The planning aspect could have been done in
days or weeks. The hardest part of their plan was knowing where to fly after
they took over the planes. Picking out landmarks from the sky isn't really
that hard either though. How can you miss the WTC or the pentagon from the
sky? There was just a report on CBS that implied that other "cells" from Bin
laden's group might have been responsible. I'm no expert in the area, but I
can see how he wouldn't have known...that's all.
Sherwood
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:06:21 EDT
Sherwood...when the employees fuck up, guess who's responsible.
MelvilleFred
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:14:11 EDT
FRED - Don't get me wrong, I want Bin laden to be crucified...a slow
tortuous death. I was only making the point he may not have known about it.
He's ultimately responsible IMO.
Sherwood
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:16:37 EDT
Hello all, here in Brooklyn many many people are missing and unaccounted
for. I have a friend who has been missing for over a day now, many are
gathered by his home. He worked on the 92nd floor of building two where the
first plane hit. He was a commodities trader. Reality is setting in that we
will not see him again. It only brings the pain a bit closer to home, even
if he was alive and well it would be little consolation. As you know we have
all been wounded. Sadness and anger are everywhere and I have no problem
saying that I would love to see those involved in the Middle East turned
into glass!
CHUCKDGAF
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:17:09 EDT
Sherwood...agreed....story on the radio this evening that there was a
hijacking that was averted on the ground at Kennedy yesterday, flight 23 to
LA. Details are sketchy.
MelvilleFred
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:21:38 EDT
FRED, no, Non-Hodgkins is NOT good, not at all.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:22:13 EDT
CHUCK..heartfelt condolances to you and the family of your friend. I was
reduced to tears again tonight when watching fathers, brothers, sisters and
wives search for their loved ones. It is truly gut wrenching. BELLE...who
exactely did you have in mind as living in their snake brain? I'm sure you
can understand that emotions are running the gammut and not everyone is as
in control as you and able to remain measured in their statements.
MelvilleFred
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:23:07 EDT
FRED: I heard about that one..9AM United flight out of JFK going to lA.
There seemed to be a distburance and the crew would not let 3 Arabs on the
plane and nobody knows where those 3 are.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:24:45 EDT
WIOSA...that's terrible..I knew the Lymphoma part was certainly bad but I
was hoping that non-hodgkins was maybe not as life threatening. My prayers
to Saku and his family.....
MelvilleFred
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:27:24 EDT
DOUBLE...apparently they were on board but someone in the crew detected
something about these guys and they were asked to leave...they refused and
the Marshalls were called. They bolted before they could be taken into
custody....they're out there somewhere....
MelvilleFred
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:30:02 EDT
Sherwood, yes I see your point on the CEO stuff, but I dont think that an
operation this size would be done without the CEO's knowledge or approval,
if you know what I mean. It was estimated that a LOT of research and time
was put into this. It means people living here for months,,at LEAST 20 of
them, since there were 20 in the planes. It meant training, it meant
spying..this all takes money. Of course I really dont know,,you could be
right. Just throwing out questions here....CHUCK, I am very sorry to hear
about your friends, two people on my job are worried about relatives. It's
hard to talk to them. You hope they are okay, but reality seems to come
crashing in,,if they made it out - why hasnt anyone heard from them? I will
pray for your friends, I sincerely hope they are okay.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:30:03 EDT
ChicagoRanger...Your probrarly right. After I received that email I looked
up Nostradmus in the internet and it was misquoted. I apologise for being so
gullable. I'm a vietnam vet and pray that it doesn't come to war. But if
does I pray we act swiftly with all our might and rid the world of hate
mongers. GOD BLESS AMERICA
Louie
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:36:08 EDT
LOUIE, youre not gullible. Everybody was passing that around. There are a
lot of stories going around too. One of the supposed reasons for yesterdays
date was reportedly the play on the numbers September 11 = 911. Of course we
are one of the few nations that put the month before the date, so to the
rest of the world it was 11th September or 119. This didnt seem to bother
anyone though.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:37:53 EDT
Fred, Cindi was on awhile ago and explained one of the best hopes that Saku
could have was Hodgkins. I feel for him too. Thank you for your request for
understanding as well.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:43:57 EDT
WIOSA: Did you see the one about the flight numbers, when you added
them..they equaled the #'s 11,12,13,14 the rest of the days of this week. I
was just reading some more articles on bin laden, afghanistan, the taliban
and that his family has disavowed him. If you ever want to get sick to your
stomach, here is an article about the taliban from
1998...www.echonyc.com/~onissues/su98goodwin.html. I had read about how they
treat women, but it is just mind boggling that this really exists in this
day and age.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:45:24 EDT
CHUCKIE-- So sorry to hear about your friend. Lets hope those responsible
are brought to justice. A girl from here was murdered in Bermuda and because
of police and legal bungling the perpetrators were never brought to justice.
This caused the family even further suffering and anger. FRED-- I understand
that emotions are running high, but as I tell my clients never make an
important decision when you are incredibly angry or incredibly anxious. I
trust those responsible will take reasoned retaliatory action that's all. It
made me sick to hear today that Muslim kids in Canadian schools were
harassed today. This is unjustified.
Belleboy
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:46:40 EDT
You wonder with what happened at Kennedy how many other "cells" there are
just waiting to strike again. The next couple days when airports are allowed
to open will be a telling time. Will more attempts be made? I'm sure
everyone will be watching everyone else. Another sign that terrorists have
done their job. Thankfully the one in Kennedy was averted. Too bad they
didn't catch the guys.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:47:30 EDT
DOUBLE N: I feel like an idiot. I knew what Roshashanna is. I had not
realized it was coming up. My bad.
KILL_EM_ALL
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:56:54 EDT
Double..Wow, I hadnt heard that one. Thanks for the link, I will read it, I
dont know WHY I want to read it, but I will. I understand what Sherman is
saying, I guess it's possible this was carried out independently of him,
odd, but possible. I do think they know who did this, or hope they know. I
think that the cellphone calls said a lot more then the FBI is letting
out..which is understandable, but frustrating. Did you read about the guy
who called his mom/aunt to say good-bye? It made me cry.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:57:37 EDT
ooops, not Sherman, Sherwood
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 020:59:52 EDT
BELLE...agreed and that's what our Leadership is doing...building a case.
When we have conclusive eveidence then retribution needs to be swift and
vengeful no screwin' around...air power is a great thing. The harrasement of
Arab citizens is indefensible and pisses me off to no end....certainly there
are many ARAB AMERICANS who live in our town who I've known for years. They
are law abiding, work hard and are always friendly and helpful.....I am very
concerned for their safety right now but am hoping that people were paying
attention to Mayor Guliani's comments from last night. Then again you get
ARAB knuckleheads who took to the streets of Brentwood L.I. with the
Palestinian flag and celebrated...fucki* amazing!! I travel alot and it
always amazed me that the security positions in the US were filled as the
lowest jobs on the totem pole anf therefore attracted a work force
commensurate with the pay. I always felt that we should have military type
personnel doing that job. Going forward I think that might be the case.
MelvilleFred
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:00:25 EDT
KILL: Up until a few weeks ago, do you think I knew exactly which days they
were. Usually when we get the calenders for next year that is the first
thing we check so we call all say, Gee the Holiday's are either early this
year or late. The next thing we check are what days of the week they fall
on, don't want a weekend otherwise don't get the days off of work LOL.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:04:33 EDT
WIOSA: I heard about the guy who called his wife to say goodbye to her and
their 3 month old..I lost it then. I also started crying when I saw the
workers at the Pentagon unfurl the American Flag..that just got me.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:05:32 EDT
FRED, I heard about the celebrations in Brentwood too. Let me ask you - did
you see pictures of this? I ask for a specific reason. I was listening to
BLI most of the day, a caller was telling of how they were celebrating on
Brentwood Ave..he gave a specific location...well it appears that the WBLI
traffic people were there at that moment, and they saw no such thing. So now
Im interested in finding out if it really happened, or if this was just
another attempt at instigating trouble against the Arabic community in the
US
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:08:58 EDT
Double, I wouldve lost it too. I read the passenger list today, one plane
had a 4 year old and a 2 year old. I dont know why I feel so much more for
babies, maybe because they had so much life to live..but it made me so sad.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:10:22 EDT
Sassy, Wiosa, paulf, thanks for your kind words. I wrote my feelings on the
wall because I am troubled by what I saw, the tower 2 falling as it did,
knowing that many thousands are dead. When the final numbers are in, people
will be shocked. I got back to Ct. just this afternoon, and many people seem
aloof to it. I saw folks bullshitting and laughing on cell phones. I can't
expect them to feel like I do, as watching on TV is less dramatic, and
statistics are far less real. But many people will never be the same. Please
pray for those who are missing and their families that are hoping for
miracles...
puckyou
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:14:14 EDT
BELLE: Both my "Thinking Brain" and my "Snake Brain" agree Ron Low should
not be the NYR coach. Total consensus there. Psychic unity.
GuitarRanger
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:20:06 EDT
I hear our mayor said please dont touch Muslims (Arabs Pakistanis) who live
here in NY do not take it in your own hands.But it's very possible people
who did it are likely lived here at US and trained here likely in Florida
Flying School .The people who live here (Arabs) even American Citizens could
be connected with Terrorists .Another building Collapsed today it's time for
Muslim countries to take responsibility Palestine Lebanon Iran Afganistan
.Israeli Tanks by the way entered Palestine already killed seven people
Israel retaliate after Palestinian celebration and right now israel have
every intention to punish palestinians israeli president Sharon is Arab
hater and he's known for that he wants to help United States.
ilya
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:26:44 EDT
The sadness just refuses to leave me. To all out there who have either lost
someone or still fear having lost someone, my heart and soul bleeds for you.
Fortuantely, my friends and family are accounted for, with only the huge
national scar that this atrocity has left being the only sign of my own
personal loss. While I could only witness this horror from my vantage point
in Elizabeth, NJ at a former fuel terminal practically under the Goethals
Bridge, I can only say that emotionally, this disgusting act has inflicted
deep pain on my very deepest emotions. Hearing the tragic stories that have
befallen so many people only intensifies the pain. I cannot begin to even
imagine what anyone who had to deal with this horror at ground zero could
have possibly felt. While I have lived in NJ for all of my life, I have
always had a deep respect and love of NYC, it's verve and electrity always
very inspiring upon my visits there. And, having worked in North Jersey, or
having made deliveries to the very areas where we now see as rubble, the
beautiful sight of those two buildings was such a sign and symbol of the
essence of NY. They represented the spirit of New Yorkers, and to have them
ripped out ofthe NY skyline by sheer acts of incomprehnsible madness, tears
at all of us in such a gut-wrenching manor. The loss of those two symbols
does not even begin to compare with the loss of so many innoncent lives. If
you look at some of the businesses that were housed in those two buildings,
you begin to fully grasp the sheer senselessness of the last two days - The
Gov't of Thailand, Japanese computers firms, Middle-Eastern lawyers, not to
mention so many other foreign busines who have taken root in this city. THIS
is who these maniacs consider their enemies? A day-care center? And, no
doubt, countless, Arab-Americans, Japanese-Americans, and so many others who
came for opportunity will either be among those who lost their lives or
looking for those who lost their lives. I wish to confess - when I saw
EGAN's post this morning, I also thought to myself "C'mon, now is not the
time for partisanship!" But, I can't begin to think in terms of party
ideaology. No one, not EGAN, BAD BOY, WIOSA, KILL, YORK18, or anyone has to
explain themselves to me right now. We are all feeling the full gamut of
emotion. I will say this - when I pulled into my local gas station, and one
of the workers there who was of Arab descent caught my eye, I waived a
confident goodbye, just to make sure he did not feel any resentment from me.
I had the misfortune of going back to the very same place where I was
yesterday when this whole nightmare began. (In my job, I very rarely go back
to the same place for less than three months at a time.) Yesterday will
forever be burned in my mind. Sorry for this incessant rambling, but I just
cannot shake the overwhelming sadness I feel. There are a couple of blood
drives in my area that will be taking place over the next few days. I hope
my giving blood can somehow aid anyone touched by this disaster. Thank you
my brothers and sisters of the WALL for putting up with this mess of a post.
jas
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:36:42 EDT
GUITAR-- Now can you send that Psychic unity telepathically to Sather?
Belleboy
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:36:54 EDT
Belle, If at all possible can you please pull your head out of your ass.
Because had you read what I said after, I said that was a reaction post
being I still have people unaccounted for. Can you say you still have people
unaccounted for while you sit in canada where you are nice and safe? It's
easy to sit and judge while you are safe and sound and have lost nothing to
open your big mouth, which is what you have.
York18
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:39:47 EDT
WIOSA.....I heard this from one of my co-workers who is not prone to
exageration..I'll ask him tomorrow if he knows the location.
MelvilleFred
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:39:58 EDT
Wiseassosa - That's OK about my name. Just don't squeeze me Charmin'.
Kidding....a little levity never hurts in a time like this.
Sherwood
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:43:18 EDT
Just made the decision with my mother as I am cancelling my vacation for the
week of 10/1. We both talked it over and I just don't feel comfortable
flying and this is from someone who is so oblivious to what is going on
around them when I do fly..have my book, walkman leave me alone. I figure we
can go in April, Las Vegas is not going anywhere and I can go anytime.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:44:09 EDT
Hey Kill, check your Email, I got to talk to you about the Ottawa trip!
Belleboy
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:46:34 EDT
JAS, nice post, and not rambling at all. We are all feeling it. I really
dont know how to react with the two people at work, I dont know what to say.
I do know this much, neither is screaming hatred - they just want to know
where their relatives are.....YORKie, just let it go. I dont quite
understand it either. Anyroad, any word at all? There are literally
thousands in hospitals, you could try checking there. Some were ferried to
hospitals in New Jersey as well. I know there are sites being set up online
to help people find others...if you want me to Ill try to find one for you.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:50:44 EDT
Sherwood, lol. No, a little levity is a good thing. Yesterday morning
everyone in my office was asking where President Bush was,,in the midst of
all that horror someone came out with "in Florida,,demanding a new recount".
Despite our fears (my son was in Manhattan at the time) we all just started
to laugh. Laughter is good medicine.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:51:09 EDT
Re: Koivu, Hodgkin's is certainly a better diagnosis than non-Hodgkin's
lymphoma. There are a lot of different kinds of non-Hodgkin's, with
different prognoses. But at any rate, this is a much better diagnosis than
an adenocarcinoma, like stomach or pancreatic. Hodgkin's lymphoma was not a
realistically likely diagnosis in this case, so really non-Hodgkin's is
about the best diagnosis it could be.
Cindi
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:51:47 EDT
Where is Jim, Brian, Anna Banana .Guys show youselves.
ilya
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:54:16 EDT
YORK-- What makes you think that because we are in Canada that we feel safe
and sound. I just got a call from my daughter who is really worried because
she doesn't live very far away from the US Embassy in Ottawa. And FYI, we
have all lost something no matter where we are. I mean a friend of mine lost
a good friend. So it touches everyone.
Belleboy
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:54:20 EDT
Cindi thanks. I couldnt remember everything you told me,,just that Hodgkins
would be a good thing,,if he must have this at all....FRED, oh I believe
your friend, I heard it on the radio too, but I would be interested in
knowing if it was real....ALL, anyone hear that the trucks with bombs on the
GW Bridge was a hoax?
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:54:37 EDT
WIOSA, I'm on the phone with one of them now and he says the whole group is
alright. They're a bunch of people that were good friends of mine. All from
brazil who live right there, they are in brooklyn and all accounted for.
Those were the last of the people I had to worry about. I just thank god
they are okay, it's a scary time when you can't find people that are
considered very close friends and were in that area. Now I just wish every
TV station would stop beating us to death with the same thing over and over
again. I think it is time they let us forget our troubles for a few hours
with some regular TV. But that will not happen.
York18
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:55:13 EDT
JAS: Trust me you weren't rambling, as when I got done reading your post, I
started to swell up again. When I see that replay of the 2nd tower coming
down, I just lose it, like I am doing right now as our city looks like
Beiruit after a bombing.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:58:45 EDT
BTW, I must say that Mayor Guiliani has clearly demonstrated a great deal of
leadership. I don't agree with him politically, sometimes I think he can be
heavy-handed and he certainly has an ego, but the man has great leadership
qualities in times of crises. He has impressed me throughout this ordeal.
jas
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 021:59:45 EDT
Belle, I am sorry for your friends loss, I live in NY, my family works in
the trade centers as does friends. I was lucky that everyone is now
accounted for. Yes, I did make that comment earlier and if you had payed
attention you would have read that I also said it was said out of hurt and
anger. But when I had time to clear my mind I realized what I said was
wrong. But you did not bother with that part. Instead in your normal
arrogant manner you decided to take a shot at me instead of being man enough
to see I came on and admitted to being wrong and said I was hurt and angry.
It's too bad at a time like this you can still be such an asshole. Like I
told someone one time on this board when they asked me to go to Ottawa and I
declined and my reason was you, because I see you can be an asshole who
doesn't know when to stop on this board and that is something I won't
tolerate in person. What respect I had for you is completely gone today
after your post was made knowing that I admitted I was wrong and had been
sorry for what I said and explained myself. Egan, completely understood and
he was the one that was discussing it with me. Too bad you couldn't be half
the man egan is.
York18
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 022:12:48 EDT
Now there are bomb scares at both the Empire State and Penn Station.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 022:15:21 EDT
Hi everyone. I am an avid reader who hasn't posted before. I am SO GLAD all
of you are ok! My condolences to the posters who lost friends in this
tragedy. I live on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, below Houston. It's
eerie. There are police barricades along Houston, we can't get back to our
apartments without photo id's or bills with our addresses on them. I am
watching the news and this is truly horrible. the Port Authority is
estimating 20,000 dead from the buildings PLUS possibly thousands from the
mall below that connected various major subway lines. I'm kinda numb, still
calling friends who might've been there, feeling a need to communicate... Be
safe everyone. Loki.
Loki
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 022:20:02 EDT
DOUBLE, I think we are going to be hearing this for a long time. There were
actually hoaxsters calling on cellphones claiming to be victims still
buried. I dont know why people do this stupid stuff. Some are just ignorant
- some need attention. I remember hearing on the radio some months ago a
guys fiancee was going to miss her flight, so, to delay the flight, he
phoned in a bomb threat. He never thought once about the terror and
hardships that caused....YORKIE, Im thrilled your friends are okay. Waiting
for the phone to ring, or the 'other shoe to drop' is a nightmare. Im happy
for you.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 022:20:48 EDT
DOUBLE...our Regional Sales Manager for the Central US and I were supposed
to do a trip to Texas Monday returning Friday...we both agreed to postpone
till early October....I fly alot but I just can't see myself getting on an
Airplane next week.
MelvilleFred
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 022:22:24 EDT
DOUBLE N/WIOSA - Thanks!! There were momets of chaos yesterday for my wife.
At first, I don't think anyone could see the sheer chaos of what was going
on. When the second plane hit, and we then heard of the plane hitting the
Pentagon, no one knew what was about to happen next. My wife started calling
my office telling them to get me out of where I was, fearing who knows wat
what would be hit next. And, being near the refineries in Union County isn't
exactly where you'd want to be if some explosion goes off. Of course, at
that time, all phone circuits were busy, so I couldn't get a hold of her. A
head foreman in my office also happened to be out in Linden that day, and
could see the very same things I could. When I got back to the office, I
could see on his face, the very same sadness and horror that I still feel. I
think it was difficult to translate to anyone in our office just how much
seeing the distant glimpse that we had impacted us so greatly. I'm pretty
sure that everyone in my office who was out in the field just wanted to get
home to our loved ones to bring some semblence of sanity back into our
lives. It almost feels like cowardice admitting that, in light of the
amazing things that so many brave and honorable people are doing over the
last few days. Like I said, the waves of emotions continue to ebb and flow
in me. To be honest, I haven't felt this much sadness since the days after
my mother died a few years ago. I don't wish that to sound like I'm
minimizing the impact of my mother's death. Rather, I wish to show how great
the impact of yesterday is in my life. When I called my father yesterday,
the first thing we both did was break down and cry. Someday soon, I'm sure
the anger will settle in, but right now, I can only wish to express my
deepest and most heartfelt sympathies to the victims and their families. PS,
I'm not a very religious man, and have my own questions about God and faith,
but, last night I prayed.
jas
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 022:23:31 EDT
WIOSA: I did hear that one of the dogs used to sniff out bombs, found
something and both places got evacuated. Now, there is a funky smell from
outside coming into my apartment. The smell is coming from the South and I
am wondering if the wind is blowing the smoke and gas up this way, as this
smell/odor is gaslike.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 022:24:04 EDT
Heard on the news that American Airlines employee badges were stolen in Rome
some months ago.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 022:26:00 EDT
Double oh shit. I just heard on the Weather station that all city residence
as well as some Northern Jerseyites should close all their windows and if
they have one, run their air conditioners. The wind is shifting and blowing
smoke and fumes down.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 022:29:41 EDT
DOUBLE N - Oh God! Please take care.
jas
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 022:31:20 EDT
WIOSA: I just the tail end of the crawl on CNN about the wind and 4 miles to
the North...guess who is about 4 miles to the North..the windows are bing
closed right now.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 022:31:23 EDT
Jas, I know what you mean. When I heard of the first plane, I thought, what
a terrible accident...while I was listening to the details they yelled,
ohmigawd another plane hit the other tower. I actually wondered how a pilot
could be that stupid or inexperienced!!! It took a couple of minutes to
realize it was deliberate. Everything seemed surreal. When I saw our skyline
this morning, I was mesmerized. Weirder still was, I was desperate to see
the skyline, almost liked I wanted to veryify that it all really happened.
Weird, truly weird.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 022:39:28 EDT
WIOSA - Agreed! Like I said before, as neighbor in NJ, seeing the Towers
were always a reassuring and inviting sight. They represented the strength,
the exctement and sheer invincibilty that was NYC. My brother and I were
talking about it before, about being in that area. I can picture the
overhead crosswalk that goes from the World Financial Building across the
last vestiges of the West Side Highway. I've made deliveries before in both
buildings, and would then rush back up to the Holland Tunnel to race,
hopefully to avoid that rush hour traffic. It is sad to see the remnants of
that crosswalk that I can vividly remember, covered in smoke and ash.
jas
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 022:46:16 EDT
All clear at the ESB. Police saw a suspicious package. My windows are shut
here in my apt., just covered my air conditioners and turned the air filter
on. This sucks, I'm seriously considering heading out to LI tomorrow to be
with my family and just get away from this. I can't escape this, on tv, and
now i can't even have the windows open. Be safe everyone. YORK18, glad to
hear your friends are ok. Same goes for you too Chuck and everyone else.
iggy
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 023:20:11 EDT
DOUBLE N--I am on 39th and 2nd, and the air is unbearable right now...i
actually cant stop coughing from being outside before...should i keep my A/C
on or off? Hope you are doing well.
chinstrap
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 023:21:02 EDT
DOUBLE N--I am on 39th and 2nd, and the air is unbearable right now...i
actually cant stop coughing from being outside before...should i keep my A/C
on or off? Hope you are doing well.
chinstrap
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 023:22:20 EDT
According to MSNBC, Guiliani has ordered 6000 bodybags from the federal
government.
jas
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 023:22:29 EDT
DOUBLE N--Im on 39th and 2nd, the air is horrible, i cant stop
coughing...hope you are ok. chinstrap
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 023:23:19 EDT
Well I guess Im off to bed now. I just wanted to say, without being too
sappy, Thanks. Funny how this was the first site I came to..the first place
I thought to go. I enjoy talking to all of you, whether I agree or disagree
with your basic philosophy. I really needed to be around friends these past
two days...and I was. I didnt really have any threats - (my son was going to
Penn Station), but I really needed to talk. For being here, and for
listening - Thank you.
WIOSA
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 023:30:09 EDT
CHINSTRAP: My eyes are a little watery; I have the AC on and my ionizer. It
is helping as the smell isn't as bad as when the windows were open. I'm on
80th and 2nd and couldn't believe that smell, I just opened the window for a
second and it smells like burning garbage.
DOUBLEN
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 023:33:39 EDT
DOUBLE--sorry about the multiple posts, i didnt think it went through...we
actually evacuated before, then came back up...being on the 31st floor makes
me slighty nervous, though...i might go out to my parents' house on Long
Island tomorrow, just to be safe. Be safe and keep in touch.
chinstrap
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Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 023:36:24 EDT
CHINSTRAP: Thanks and same to you.
DOUBLEN
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